1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

An actor in my tree - or not?

Discussion in 'Stage & Screen (and Radio too!)' started by Moff, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    8,078
    Location:
    North Devon, England
    I've trawled through the newspapers and, although there are a lot of mentions of Henry Marsh Allen (usually at H. Marsh Allen or just Marsh Allen) there is nothing which could be called biographical, except for the mention of him being born in Lancashire. He did own a racehorse in 1910 called Andrew Smith, but, when asked, he had no idea why the horse had that name! He is variously described as talented and handsome and there are quite a few pictures, but other than being able to make a list of the plays he appeared in and where, I don't think the papers will provide an answer. I was hoping there might be an obituary, but I didn't find one.

    There are a couple of Ancestry trees which seem to have his death as 5th January 1928 in Brissago, Ticino, Switzerland, but there is no idea of where that came from. I've tried to find mention of a death in a 1928 paper, but with no luck.
     
  2. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    8,078
    Location:
    North Devon, England
    The last mention I can find of him performing is in New York in 1922. There he appeared in “The Romantic Age” by A. A. Milne and the report appeared in The Stage of the 30th November.
     
  3. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,617
    Likes Received:
    6,000
    Location:
    Middlesex
    I am beginning to think the only way you will prove or disprove if his is 'your' man is to buy the marriage cert.
     
  4. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    364
    Location:
    South Wales
    If he died in 1928, I would have thought he'd be described as "deceased" on his son's marriage record in 1951. Wonder where the owners of the Ancestry trees got their info? Bet there aren't any sources :D
     
  5. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    8,078
    Location:
    North Devon, England
    No, that's the big problem, where on earth did that get that date and place without being able to quote a source :mad:
    PS I've had cases where the father was dead but there was no 'deceased' on son's/daughter's marriage cert.
     
    dizzyme likes this.
  6. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    1,278
    Location:
    Cheshire, England
    The probate calendar has an entry for Harry Marsh Allen of Brisago, Italy who is said to have died 5 Jan 1928. Administration (limited) was granted to John Hernaman Allen (no occupation) attorney of Mary Marsh Allen, and there were effects of £112 in England. This wasn't until 12 July 1947.

    When the death place isn't mentioned, this usually means the person died at their home address, though with a foreign death and the passage of 19 years (not to mention everything that was going on in Italy in that period), it might be better not to assume this without some evidence.

    Nevertheless, this seems consistent with other things that have been found - and it also implies that Mary/Maria was alive in 1947. Was there a daughter called that, or would it be his wife?
     
    CaroleF, Half Hour and AnnB like this.
  7. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    1,278
    Location:
    Cheshire, England
    A possible John Hernaman Allen:

    Birth reg Dec qtr 1867, 8b 650, Prescott reg dist; mmn Marsh

    JHA aged 31 married Rose Sarah Amiss at a Congregational church in Withington in 1899 (image at Ancestry), father John Fenwick Allen, a copper merchant.

    So is he Henry's brother?

    He's in the probate index too - d 7 Nov 1957, of and presumably in Knutsford; probate 7 Jan 1958, with a bank as executor.
     
    AnnB likes this.
  8. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    4,152
    Location:
    Owen Sound, Ontario
    I find most marriages of relatives here in North America don't say whether the parents were deceased..just give their names. That's how I found my maternal grandmother's maiden name as she died when my grandad was young.
    @arthurk you beat me to suggesting that since his wife was Italian he may have died there! I think she was a fair bit younger than him from the ages I read somewhere.
     
  9. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,618
    Likes Received:
    10,021
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    1907, 1908 England, London Electoral Registers, 1847-1913

    Henry Marsh Allan is at, Dwelling house, 2 Ryder Street, St. James's, Pall Mall Ward, Borough of Strand, London,

    I think this was more of a guest house/hotel,chambers. There seem to be a lot of other people living there too.

    Tried searching his fathers probate to see if he was mentioned but sadly not.

    His father, John Fenwick Allen, of Glan-yr-Afon, Llanddona, Anglesea, died 28th August 1912. His probate was left to his son John Hernaman Allen, who was an insurance inspector.

    John Fenwick Allen was buried on 31st August in BEAUMARIS, Anglesey
     
    AnnB, Half Hour and arthurk like this.
  10. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    16,163
    Location:
    Sydney, nsw, Australia
    A John Hernaman Allen received a gong from the Queen in 2007 for services to education. Maybe a grandson of the above. Not only an actor in the tree but an OBE. ;)
     
    Half Hour likes this.
  11. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    16,163
    Location:
    Sydney, nsw, Australia
    There are a number of Hernaman Allens in high places. One an author, still writing I think. Another received Order of The Bath recently in 2006. Not sure if these are yours though but not a very common middle name.
     
  12. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    364
    Location:
    South Wales
    Yay! He's mine! [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]:):):)

    Massive thanks to everyone who's dug up info on this chap. The definite confirmation is the probate to John Hernaman Allen - his brother. Very clever of Arthur to find him as Harry - he seems to have spent his life dropping his first name Henry or shortening it to H! [​IMG]:D

    He's the second instance in my family tree of a long gap between death and probate - the record currently stands at 23 years.

    Mary Marsh Allen, nee Bazzi, although Italian, was born in London in 1891. Her birth reg was registered as Mary Annita Bazzi, although a number of websites have her as Marie Anita - it seems that she was a quite well-known actress.

    I'm quite pleased to have someone famous in my tree.

    Thanks also to Archie's Mum for the info about John Hernaman Allen's "gong" - he's the second person in my tree with one. My paternal grandfather Alexander George Moffat was awarded the M.B.E. in 1918. Who knows, I may discover some more!
     
    arthurk, Daft Bat, CaroleF and 5 others like this.
  13. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    364
    Location:
    South Wales
    Just had a thought - the John Hernaman Allen who had a gong in 2007 can't be Henry Marsh Allen's brother, who was born in 1867. Good chance that it's a relative, though, with a name like that. :)
     
  14. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    16,163
    Location:
    Sydney, nsw, Australia
    8(:-)
    Check out the other Hernaman Allens. Can't put first names here. Sorry.
     
  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    16,163
    Location:
    Sydney, nsw, Australia
    I think I mentioned he was probably a grandson ;)
     
  16. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    364
    Location:
    South Wales
    The name Hernaman in my tree comes originally from John Hernaman, a master mariner who married my great (x3) great-aunt in St Clement, Truro, in 1805. I'm also trying to tie in a John Hernaman James, who I'm pretty sure is mine... :) Not claiming him until I'm sure, though :D
     
  17. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    1,278
    Location:
    Cheshire, England
    I found him by searching the probate indexes at Ancestry using the forename Marsh (only), and surname Allen. I can't remember if I set a time span, but I think I got 11 results in total, though some looked like duplicates. Presumably some of those might be related too?
     
  18. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    364
    Location:
    South Wales
    I wonder! Maybe further down the tree :) I tried the search on Ancestry, and none of the names are familiar to me. Interestingly, Henry, 3rd of 11 siblings, was the only one given his mother's maiden name Marsh as a middle name.
     
    arthurk likes this.

Share This Page