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Henry W Harrold

Discussion in 'Migration & Shipping' started by TonyV, Apr 27, 2017.

  1. TonyV

    TonyV Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to track down an ancestor who disappeared from available UK records as far as I can see after he was at school in 1881. He was born in Welford, Northants. around 1875.

    I found reference to an arrival of an H W Harrold in Sydney on Ancestry but I don't have a subscription for Aussie records so I can't see the year or the remaining details but I assume that it would be after about 1890 and potentially quite a few years later. If anyone here can see this record and advise me whether it gives his background I would be grateful.

    Tony
     
  2. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    H.W.Harrld appears to have been a Gent's servant travelling between London & Sydney 1989 - 1902 once as W.H. Harrold [1902]
    Also a W. Harrold similar age - crewing, same years.
     
  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Here is a William H. Harrold, same chap or a brother?

    1891
    Name: William H Harrold-boarder [Apprentice?]
    Birth: abt 1876 - Welford, Northamptonshire, England
    Residence: London City, Islington, London
    RG12; Piece: 154; Folio: 106; Page: 49

    App..JPG
     
  4. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Yes, he is a Draper's Apprentice. :)

    (FMP have him transcribed as HARROW)
     
  5. TonyV

    TonyV Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Specialists! Your usual brilliant finds. He was baptised Henry William and at school in Shefford in 1881 under the same name but he definitely came from Welford so he is undoubtedly the man. All I need to do now is track him down later!

    Tony
     
  6. TonyV

    TonyV Well-Known Member

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    Wendy. Did the reference you found give any more details about H W Harrold? Also when you say travelling between the two cities and give the years 1889-1902 I assume that you found a few similar trips? What was the name of the Gent please?

    I cannot find Henry after the 1891 census referred above. The person he was apprenticed to had changed his occupation to a coffee house keeper elsewhere near London by 1901 which suggests that the apprenticeship may not have been completed and that Henry did something else - such as emigrating. I can't find a record in any later UK censuses or any other UK records for the matter. That's why the possibility that the person you found may be my man and that he moved to Australia is of interest.

    Tony
     
  7. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Arrival: 29 Oct 1898 - Sydney, New South Wales-Crew & passengers.
    W H is among a long list of G.S's. passengers names follow later.

    H W Harrold-c.1875- G.S.
    Origin: London-Departure: Tilbury -"Cuzco"
    Arrival: 30 Sep 1900 - Sydney, New South Wales

    H W Harrold: c.1875- Gentl' serv't
    Origin: London- Departure: London-"Ortona"
    Arrival: 13 Apr 1901 - Sydney, New South Wales

    W H Harrold:c.1874- G.S.
    Departure: London -"Oruba"
    Arrival: 10 May 1902 - Sydney, New South Wales

    This may well be the chap born in London, but I think I found a death for the London chap, will need to go back into history- have been nose down in 1939 reg. images.
    Meant to lookinto immigration to NSW but got led away :oops:
     
  8. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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  9. TonyV

    TonyV Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for doing all this Wendy.

    The man I'm interested in was born in Welford, Northamptonshire in 1875. His parents were John Richard and Jane Harrold. He was registered as Henry William by the GRO and called Henry at school in Shefford, Beds. in 1881 (with his older brother Frederick). The 1891 census find above is almost certainly him but his names had been swapped around. This may be because he preferred to use his second name or because his employer/landlord and head of the family for census purposes had made a mistake (or indeed the enumerator).

    I have not been able to find a christening record for him (or again interestingly for the older brother) Interestingly I found christening records for his other siblings around those years a few months ago. I thought that they were on Ancestry but I cannot find them online any more, although I have pdf copies. The only 19th century Northants. christening records they now display stop in around 1815. I am mystified.

    However it is his later life that interests me because after 1891 he seems to have dropped off the radar. The gentleman's servant clue may be the right man because he was certainly living in London in 1891. I am amazed by the closeness of the sailing however. The gentleman and his servant must have caught ships home almost as soon as landing in Sydney, given how long it took in those days.

    I think that for now I'll have to guess that he stayed in Australia at one point because he certainly seems not to show up in the 1901 or 1911 E & W censuses or marriage or death records. If he was indeed the servant on board the Ortona he would have been at sea during the 1901 census of course.

    Again thank you for looking into the immigration records.

    Tony
     
  10. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Tony I got the feeling your man worked for a shipping line which supplied 'Gent's Servants' to their passengers.
    Found lots on his brother whom your man may have followed into maritime work.
     
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  11. TonyV

    TonyV Well-Known Member

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    Ah! That's a thought. Thank you Wendy
     
  12. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    I had the same thought, Wendy.
     
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  13. TonyV

    TonyV Well-Known Member

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    Sue/Wendy

    I can feel a long post coming on. Sorry!

    Firstly the idea of a shipping line employing gents' servants is interesting. Do either of you know that this actually happened or is this simply a great idea of yours?

    As I've said above, Henry William goes off the radar in the UK after 1891 so I have often thought that he may have emigrated. If this theory is given weight first by his regular trips (if indeed it is the same man) to and from Australia and then by Wendy's find of 1927 when Mr & Mrs H W Harrold left London for Freemantle it seems worth spending more time on the idea.

    The Harrold family in the UK had two main branches in the 18th and 19th century. One in Northamptonshire, mainly in Welford and the other in Olney Buckinghamshire. The latter diversified from the previously predominant occupation of milling and some became wealthy. One of the sons went to Australia and set up a business empire based in Adelaide which had fingers in many pies before eventually going bust many years later. It is probable that some members of the family stayed in Australia although some undoubtedly retained links with their UK roots and eventually returned home.

    It is possible that Henry had connections with the emigre Harrolds and went to work with them but that is just a guess.

    Quite apart from the ancestral generations, our older son is married to an Aussie from Melbourne, albeit they live in the UK. But it seems possible that our son may have ancestors from his mother's side in Australia. He and his family depart for a month in Australia this summer so they might be interested if I can show evidence of rellies somewhere along the route of their intended travels across the country.

    If anyone can find any evidence of Henry William either marrying in Australia or settling there it would be great to hear about. I can find no evidence of him marrying in the UK.

    Tony
     
  14. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Tony, without being arrested for whatever the charge I submit this little bit which is what all years list more - or less. There were 11 men so listed.

    Gents. Servant.JPG

    Following were various ships men: cook ,Baker, chef, Barber, mate, more g.s. then 9 passengers.
     
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  15. TonyV

    TonyV Well-Known Member

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    Wendy

    Thanks. I'd offer to pay your fine but not sure how that works. Do I read the date as 29/10/98 i.e. 1898? It's not completely clear. If so the age is spot on because the Henry I seek was born around 1875.

    If GS stands for gentleman's servant I wonder why there were 11 listed but only 9 fee paying customers?

    Tony
     
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  16. TonyV

    TonyV Well-Known Member

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    I think that I may have partly answered my own question. Quick research suggests that "GS" implies General Servant not Gentleman's Servant. That suggests either that he accompanied an employer or that he was off to the land of Oz to seek employment as a general servant. So the equivalency of other passengers not called GS is probably irrelevant
     
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  17. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    You are correct Tony, another look shows this for 1901 travel. I took it for Gent'l
    general serv..JPG
     
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