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My Green family from Potterspury

Discussion in 'Northamptonshire' started by The Artful Dodger, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    It is time I 'dusted off' and tied up the few loose ends on this family. Here is what we know:
    1] William Green and Ann Wise were both born in Potterspury. William was baptised 24 November 1816 and Ann was baptised 15 January 1815. They were married in Potterspury 2 August 1836. They baptised 7 children [all girls] between 1836 and 1855. William's occupation was variously described on the baptisms as either a Sawyer or a Labourer. William died in Potterspury Jul-Sep q. 1857 [vol. 3B page 19] and Ann died in Potterspury Oct-Dec q. 1858 [vol. 3B page 23].

    2] The 7 children and their dates of baptism:
    Caroline - 25 December 1836
    Mary - 6 January 1839
    Susan - 11 September 1842
    Charlotte - 30 March 1845
    Elizabeth - 16 May 1847
    Louisa - 23 September 1849.
    Emma - 18 February 1855

    Census references:
    1841 - H0107, Piece 796, Book 11, Folio 7, Page 8
    1851 - H0107, Piece 1737, Folio 54, Page 26.

    3] What became of the children?
    Caroline married Reuben Roddis Oct-Dec q. 1856 in Potterspury [vol. 3b page 93]. 1861 census - RG9, Piece 928, Folio 29, Page 53. Caroline died Oct-Dec q. 1861 in Potterspury [vol. 3b page 22].

    Mary married Joseph Meakins Jul-Sep q. 1858 in Potterspury [vol. 3b page 59]. 1861 census - RG9, Piece 928, Folio 47, Page 12. Joseph was an Ag. Lab. and they had a 4 year old son Jesse. Shortly after the 1861 census, they baptised a daughter - Ann - 3 June 1861. 1871 census - RG10, Piece 1476, Folio 58, Page 23 - the family with just the 2 children and Joseph. Mary died Apr-Jun q. 1871 in Potterspury [vol. 3b page 18].

    Charlotte can be found in the 1861 census - RG9, Piece 928, Folio 51, Page 19 - living with Jane Shelton and her 19 year old son. She was a 15 year old Lace Maker. She married William Gear July-Oct q. 1863 in Potterspury [vol. 3b page 49]. Her life was 'rocky' and William was in and out of jail. He was a drinker and was also violent. 2 children were baptised - Caroline 29 September 1857 and William 21 June 1868. In 1869, her husband was sentenced to 5 years in jail for Assault. In the Jan-Mar q. 1871 Charlotte gave birth to and lost a daughter named Beatrice Alice - baptised 14 February 1871 - while living at the Union Workhouse. The birth and death was registered vol. 3b page 31 - [birth] and vol.3b page 25 - [death]. William was released in March 1874 and returned to Potterspury. A son - Joseph Henry - was born Oct-Dec q. 1874 in Potterspury [vol. 3b page 32] and baptised 30 May 1875.
    On 27 December 1875, Charlotte was a witness at the wedding of Eliza Gear [sister of William] and violence occurred when it became 'known' that Charlotte had given birth and baptised a child while William was in jail. Charlotte left William- but not sure if her daughter [Caroline] went with her or stayed with relatives in Potterspury.
    Charlotte has not been found in 1881 census [not surprising] and in 1891 census - RG12, Piece 2601, Folio 53, Page 11 - she is working as a domestic servant in Eastville, Lincolnshire and died 14 May 1837.
    The 3 children have all been accounted for and her husband died in 1889.

    Now for the 3 other children - and these are where I need to tie up loose ends.

    Firstly:
    Susan can be found in 1861 census - RG9, Piece 928, Folio 61, Page 40 - and is an 18 year old Lace Maker. In Apr-Jun q. 1862 in Potterspury [vol. 3b page 44] she married Jacob Meakins. A daughter - Mary Ann - was baptised 21 December 1862.

    There was a Mary Ann Meakins buried 29 October 1867 - an 8 day old Infant - daughter of William and Susan that I have eliminated.

    There is a possibility that Jacob and Susan may have moved to West Ham but I have yet to confirm.

    Next:
    Elizabeth , Louisa and Emma all appear to be inmates of the Union Workhouse in Yardley Gobion in 1861 census - RG9, Piece 928, Folio 95, Page 27. Elizabeth is enumerated as 'Betsey' 13 years old, Louisa is 11 and Emma is 6.

    I cannot find them with any degree of certainty after 1861.
     
  2. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    There is a correction to the above - they had a daughter Mary Ann baptised 6 January 1839 and who died shortly thereafter - Jan-Mar q. 1839 vol. 15 page 366 - and whose birth was registered Oct-Dec q. 1838 vol. 15 page 240.

    This baby was followed into the world by Mary baptised 8 March 1840 and it was this Mary who married Joseph Meakins.
     
  3. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Updating the situation with Charlotte and her family [and it may bring a tear or two] which is why I'm posting:
    1] After Charlotte left William, Caroline appears to have stayed in the Potterspury/Yardley Gobion area. It is possible that she was living with her father William and her 2 brothers - William and Joseph.

    2] On 1 November 1879, when she was aged 12, Caroline was convicted of stealing turnips. She was the eldest of the 3 children. Her punishment was a fine of 10 shillings and 8 pence and given a week to pay or face 7 days in jail. Given the financial state of the family it seems likely that she spent 7 days in jail.

    3] Caroline left the area - was not with her father and 2 brothers in 1881 census - and on 1 August 1881 she married Charles Peter Franklin in Bethnal Green. She was aged 14 and he 23 - although she stated her age was 20 on the marriage certificate. At the time of marriage their address was 26 Gibraltar Walk, St. Pancras. Charles Peter indicated his father was named Charles Peter, however I have not found any evidence to confirm this.

    4] Carolne and Charles can be found in 1891, 1901 and 1901 census records for West Ham. 1911 census shows that Charles Peter was aged 54 and a Dock Labourer [Victoria Docks] and Caroline was aged 49. She had 12 live births of whom 6 were still alive in 1911. Charles Peter died in 1926 and Caroline in 1934.

    Now for William Jr.:
    1] After 1881 census, William appeared destined for a life of crime and violence, starting in 1882 at age 14 - 11 August 1882 @ Potterspury was convicted of 3 charges of theft of property of others. Sentenced to 3 weeks hard labour followed by 4 years at the Tiffield Reformatory. During the 4 years at the Reformatory his father was ordered to pay 1 shilling per week towards his upkeep.

    2] During the 4 years in Tiffield, he escaped twice and was rearrested after commiting various offences and was returned to Tiffield. He was at large for over 14 months, His conviction after the 2nd escape resulted in a prison sentence - duration unknown.

    3] On 4 May 1887 William and his younger brother Joseph were convicted of breaking and entering the village school house and stealing several items. In view of his previous background, he was sentenced to 5 years in Dartmoor.

    4] I have not found his date of release, however in Potterspury on 5 August 1893 he was charged with being drunk and disorderly. The case was remanded and before the next hearing, he did a runner to Wrangle, Lincolnshire, where he met a girl and married her in 2nd q. 1894.

    5] I have not found any children from this union and in 1901 census he and his wife were living in Surfleet.

    6] The family were transient and livinga day to day existence. By 1907 he and wife were living in a cottage in Lutton Marsh, Lincolnshire and they had a lodger - William Duddles. William Duddles murdered the wife on 8 October 1907 and was convicted and hanged in November 1907.

    7] William died of Tuberculosis 22 June 1908 at the Union Workhouse in Spalding, Lincolnshire.

    More on the family later.
     
  4. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Now the youngest son Joseph:

    1] He was baptised 30 May 1875 in Potterspury

    2] He had periods of education between 24 May 1880 and 10 January 1887 when he left school at age 12 years and 3 months.

    3] After his conviction with his brother William [4 May 1887] he became an inmate at the Tiffield Reformatory. He was a resident there still in 1890 as there is an indication of a 2nd baptism in Tiffield on 1 June 1890 and he was still there for the 1891 census.

    The only other thing I have found about Joseph is the following and I hope I can prove one way or another if he is my chap:

    15 May 1900 Joseph Gear [age 25] died of multiple wounds in battle @ Mhow, Bengal, India and was buried 16 May 1900. Source of this was India, Select Deaths and Burials 1719-1948.
     
  5. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    I have had a look, Colin, and I cannot find anything for your Joseph (Henry) GEAR apart from his actual baptismal record, a couple of newspaper articles about his juvenile misdemeanours, his 1881 and 1891 census records and then zilch until the record you have re a death in Mhow, Bengal in 1900 for a Joseph GEAR, aged 25, which does not give any extra information other than he was a Private in the XX Hussars. I cannot find a service record for him either, so am afraid at the moment there is nothing concrete which proves that the two are one and the same Joseph GEAR.

    Janet
     
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  6. Peregrine

    Peregrine Well-Known Member

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    (Laughing) I was attracted by the Green name and just had to look up where Potterspury was: first places I recognised nearby were Silverstone circuit and Bletchley. I am a petrol head and like my military history too, so I chuckled away. Mind you my favourite English place name is Hollow Bottom near Guiting Power! Loved our stay at the pub in Hollow Bottom. And some people say Australian place names are weird!
    I apologise for going off piste. ;)
     
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  7. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    No problem - we have some weird place names as well.
     
  8. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Isn't there a Scratchy Bottom over that way somewhere too......I'll leave now before I go too far off the beaten track. :oops:
     
  9. seekinganswers

    seekinganswers New Member

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    Hi
    I am related to the Greens from Potterspury and I had Charlotte marrying Robert Shelton in 1845. Vol15 pg529.
    I am interested in your findings about Charlotte - where did you find that much detail.
    Have I got it all wrong?
     
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  10. seekinganswers

    seekinganswers New Member

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    I have John Meakins & Susan in 1871 living at 10 Chemical? cottages, West Ham
    You mention Betsey for Elizabeth but there was a Betsey baptised the week before Elizabeth in May 1847, Potterspury, the daughter of Joseph & Mary Green
    I also have Emma baptised 14 March 1852 daughter of William & Ann Green. There was an Emma Green born in 1855 daughter of William and Emma, all very confusing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2017
  11. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Have started a conversation with you.
     

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