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Need to prove correct parents please.

Discussion in 'London' started by Ma-dotcom, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Another wee quandary in my Family. William & Ada married & I have followed them to 1939 & beyond. TNA-R39-_0115_0115H_009.
    Unable to get online help from other sources.
    My query is her husband William Thomas ? or William Henry Thomas with the Henry added later for the Fathers of both of his parents? As there are still living family I don't want to splash the surname in case of offending any-one that I haven't contacted. The clues should set any searches on the right path. I just want to be sure to give cousin's hubby the correct parents. Caroline has no obvious connection to my own family line. Questions rose after GRO index accessibility & 1939 image.

    Very obliged to anyone who can prove relationships for me.
    ...............
    Marriages Dec 1922 St.Olave - so unable to see names of fathers.
    surname,_William H.T.(b.Dec.1896) + surname _, Ada (b.Apr 1899) -St. Olave 1d-269 = 1st cousin x 1 removed. b.dates from 1939 reg.
    ---------
    These are the BMDS I have found for the same name.
    -------------
    [Surname],_ WILLIAM HENRY THOMAS x COLLINS
    GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in ST OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 303
    -----------------------------------
    Surname:
    [surname]_ WILLIAM THOMAS
    GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 239 [so not likely to be born ion 1 Dec. 1896 eh?]
    .........
    William _ & Caroline _ marry 1895 St.Olave. 1d-440 pts Harry & James Henry
    .........
    All London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
    William Ths._ son of pts Will'm & Caroline.
    22 July 1896 Bapt.St.Crispin Bermondsey .
    .........
    Marriages Dec 1922
    [surname],_ William H.T.+ Ada -St. Olave 1d-269
    ........
    1911
    William Thomas _[surname] 14 b.1897
    2 Tain Cottages, Church Road, Lower Tottenham N
    Res. Tottenham
    Source Citation
    Class: RG14; Piece: 7312;
    ..........
    So far looking as if I have keyed in the wrong parents. :(
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    I am not convinced that this is the same chap as in 1939. This William's occupation is that of an office clerk in the office of a journalist. In 1939 he is a waterman, lighterman and bargeman dealing in wholesale fish. :confused:
     
  3. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    He might be the lad on this 1911 census. As his mother is just recorded as Mrs, that is of no help whatsoever... :(

    RG14, PN1914, RD24, SD3, ED1, SN66

    Mum's a boarder and working as a housekeeper. States that she is married but no husband in evidence...
     
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  4. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Thanks Jan, you see my dilemma? I did wonder if he was the son of 'Ms' Collins. no further data as hers seems to fit the GRO registration.
    Marriages Jun 1896
    COLLINS Hannah Maria L. married _ William Edward St. Saviour 1d-280
    Hannah Maria Lucas Collins
    Spouse Age: 20
    Record Type: Marriage
    Event Date: 25 May 1896
    Parish: St John the Evangelist, Walworth
    Borough: Southwark
    Father Name: Henry _surname
    Spouse Father: Collins
    ..........................
    Births Jun 1876
    COLLINS Hannah Maria L. St. Saviour 1d-49
    ........................
    Mother's Maiden Surname:
    COLLINS, HANNAH MARIA LUCAS x SHOULT
    GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D
    Marriages Mar 1867
    Collins, Thomas William + SHOULT, Clara Ann
    Bermondsey 1d-113

    More venues to discover. :confused:
     
  5. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    According to this census, Mum had been married for 15 years, making it the 1896 as you mention above. Therefore, it looks like Mum is Hannah Maria L and Dad is William Edward.

    This makes her about 19/20 when she wed, which also fits with the age in the 1911 census that I found.
     
  6. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    By the way - don't get confused between Southwark, St Saviour, St Olave and Bemondsey. They all merged at various times with St Olave (Bermondsey) and St Olave (Southwark) joining forces.

    More explained here ;)
     
  7. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Oo-ooooooooh! Jan,must admit to believing you are correct. I think I held onto the other hoping to make a connection between Caroline's family & mine.
    Another oldie to demolish & redo.:oops: I so love the GRO index added to the 1939 Register. but so much work. Pity I didn't do it right in the beginning. :(
    Thanks Jan.
    {-(^^)-}
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  8. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Taa Jan, been doing the merge for many yrs now.
     
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  9. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Just been having a wander through the 1911 census and there is a Thomas William who is a Thames Lighterman, the occupation of William in 1939. Tried to find William Edward in 1911 but to no avail.

    However....

    I was wondering if Thomas William was a brother of William Edward - keeping the occupation in the family, young William being Thomas William's nephew.

    Just a thought....

    Also, if William Edward was missing in 1911 (his wife being recorded just as Mrs but still married) he might be out on his barge/boat somewhere and so missed off.

    It would help if we could find them in 1901 though....
     
  10. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    This was one which had me wondering earlier on.:
    Hannah M.
    Age: 24
    Estimated birth year: abt 1877
    Relation to Head: Wife
    Gender: Female
    Spouse: William E. _
    Birth Place: Camberwell, London, England
    Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
    William E._ 23
    Hannah M. 24
    Willm E. 4
    Henry T. 2
    Source Citation
    Class: RG13; Piece: 399; Folio: 118; Page: 54

    but ages out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  11. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Got 'em! :D And William E is a Lighterman as well! :D

    RG13, piece 399, folio 118, page 54

    ETA: Snap! :D
     
  12. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    By jove, I think we do Jan. All ages out tho' I may have to go to bed & ponder a while. Thanks jan for being here. did I mention that a William _was boarding with the Collins family in 1891at Westminster Class: RG12; Piece: 86; Folio: 102; Page: 11; of course it may be an entirely different family o_O

    ciao & Goodnight all.
     
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  13. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    I will have a rummage whilst you are in the arms of Morpheus... ;)
     
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  14. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Looks like the right one - born in Horsleydown in both 1901 and 1891.

    In 1881, he is with mum Rosina and dad Henry (who is a lighterman ;) ) at
    RG11, piece 564, folio 116, page 10.

    Just as a matter of interest, I checked for a marriage between Henry and Rosina and found them in the March quarter of 1875, St Olave, volume 1d, page 290. Rosina's maiden name? SHOULT! I knew that I had seen that name before - see your post #4 above! :D

    At this point I shall leave you to your ruminations. ;)
     
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  15. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Another Rosina! love that name.
    Thank you Jan, I hope this all kept you out of mischief. I'm going to renounce the persons so far occupying parents status & insert new findings. Will contact known cousin & see if he can offer any other relly who may have dabbled in his side of Family & heard of these names. It may keep him out of mischief too. I may just outlay for marriage cert. on this one for my own piece of mind as the Mother of Ada [my Gt. Aunt] is a bit special to me.

    Can't wait for my next adventure into GRO. ;)
     
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