Nottingham framework knitters in Calais?

I bought a novel yesterday about Nottingham and the hardships of framework knitters at the beginning of the nineteenth century. While I only know Nottingham fairly vaguely, some of my ancestors were framework knitters in Nottinghamshire, and I hoped to find out something interesting about them.

Unfortunately, there was little detail, apart from times being hard, some references to Ned Lud (sic) and the Napoleonic Wars causing demand for their products to go down while prices for food rose. The idea of one man, one vote also vaguely raised its head, and there was a mention of Peterloo.

On the other hand, I was extremely interested to learn that numerous framework knitters and lace makers, unable to make a living, went to Calais and set up an English colony there. Is this common knowledge and thus a huge lacuna in my culture? Was it only Nottinghamshire people who went?

I have Googled done an internet search, and there seems to be quite a lot to read on this. One article says that, when France revolted, as it does from time to time, in 1848, the Anglo-Calaisians negotiated with the British government to be shipped to Australia rather than returning to England where they would probably have faced already over-filled workhouses. Those who made it were not allowed to carry on lace-making; it had been a sticking point in the negotiations that it was a trade Australia had no interest in - she wanted labourers!

Is there anyone down under with Anglo-French lace connections?

 

Yes, me , me ,me.
Elliotts from Nottingham, some were converted to Mormans and ended up in Utah. Some went to South Africa and the rest here.
edited to add.........The Lacemakers of Calais by Gillian Kelly is a good read if you haven't already.

 

Sorry Old Stoneface, are you referring to Lace Makers or Framework Knitters. Those that came to Australia, mainly on 3 ships were lace makers from Nottingham and Calais and those that went to South Africa were the 1820 Settlers of the Eastern Cape and were framework knitters making hosiery, not all from Nottingham.
The framework knitters in South Africa were dumped on the Eastern Cape on a piece of land and left to fend for themselves.

 

Nottingham Colonists to South Africa 1820 by Rod Neep, on-line, will explain all about the framework knitters and their struggles 1816-1820

 

Australian Society of the Lacemakers of Calais Inc........angelfire.com
gives, I feel, a rather more accurate description of the events leading up to the decision to immigrate to Australia. Also why the English lacemakers took their craft and (smuggled) their machinery to France.

 

Wow, what a lot of replies, Archie's Mum!

I'm glad I found someone who knows about this and, more particularly, who's descended from these people. I must admit that I'm a bit confused as to whether framework knitters, i.e. hosiery makers, went to Calais along with the lace makers, but they certainly do in the book. There's even a member of the family who goes over to escape justice - rather heavy-handed in those days - who worked in an iron foundry!

But it's a novel ...

Should you be interested, it's an e-book and a paperback called Narrow Marsh by A.R. Dance. It's very easy to read, and there's the historical detail which is interesting and the references to Nottingham for those who know the city well; however, it is all hung on a love story between a framework knitter's son raised in abject poverty and the daughter of one of the lace factory owners, and I'm afraid I just don't believe that sort of thing really happened.

 

So do you have any French-born ancestors?

As I said, I got confused between the two. At the time of the book, both the stockingers/framework knitters and the early lace net knitters worked at home and were being replaced by machines who could do the work faster and more cheaply because there were too many people for not enough jobs so the factory bosses lowered wages.

I wasn't aware of anyone going to South Africa and didn't find that in my trawl through the Internet. I'll look up Rod Neep's account.

Yes, I read this one which I found interesting. Apparently there is now only one factory each in Calais and Nottingham still making lace

 

The Framework Knitters and Lacemakers were completely different entities, although most families had both in their midst.
The period between 1816 and 1820 found it difficult for framework knitters who traditionally worked from home with the frame set up in their front room, to compete against mechanisation and the depression in the market due to the excess of cheap manufactured stockings. So instead of supporting the unemployed workers a large number were removed to South Africa. It served two purposes. One, to rid the government of the expense and two to use them as buffers between the Boer and the raiding Xhosa of the Cape district. They were all pauper immigrants and were virtually dumped in the middle of nowhere.
I don't have any French born ancestors (hubbies actually) but sisters and brothers of those that were either Calais lacemakers or, the earlier framework knitters that went to SA.
One lacemaker was 18 years old, was converted and travelled on her own to Utah were she pulled and pushed, along with others, a handcart over the Rocky Mountains in 1856 and nearly died along with 100's of others, for her trouble. But she survived and made well.
Another part of the same family, Elliott, came to Sydney on the Fairlie in 1848, stayed a while digging for gold in Victoria and NSW then converted and they also moved on to Utah.
Another came with her new husband, becoming farmers in NSW Central West.
So our Elliott's are all over the place. Australia, South Africa, Nottingham and Canada.

 

Well, sort of. It would have been at the top of the house where the light was best and with specially large windows

 

Yes, I realise this; I had both in my family: framework knitters who would work from home, and others who were in the lace industry, probably working both at home and in factories, being finishers, clippers and such like (just when I want them, I can't find them in my tree, to get the exact terms).

There are still a lot of framework knitters cottages preserved, with the many-windowed top floor where the frame would be, in both Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire. There is also a museum in Nottinghamshire, here: http://www.
frameworkknittersmuseum.org.uk/

It's a pity you don't have any Frogs (I'm allowed to say it; I live with them ) in your tree - or your husband's; I was rather looking forward to helping you find records for them. French bmds can be fascinating, with a real wealth of information which we in England & Wales can only dream of (full names, including maiden name, and address of parents of a child, for example, sometimes with their birth places and marriage place and date). The one big thing that they don't put on is cause of death, and I really shocked my father-in-law when I told him it was on death certificates in England & Wales.

 

I have a French-born ancestor called Jeanne RUNNIER

but he came to England in time for his son to have children in the 1570-80s in Winfrith Newburgh, Dorset -- no idea where in France he came from, presumed Huguenot

 

Well there are some Pettett's/Pettit's from Sussex that we assumed came over from France way back when. Again as Mugwortismycat say's, most probably Huguenot as well.
A few of the Elliott children were born in Calais too.

 

He might have fled France after the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre which was on 24th August 1572 which started up religious civil war again in France. Do you know what he did? A lot of those who came were silk weavers (we're definitely sticking with a textile theme here!), but they tended to go to London, I think. I wonder if he came from La Rochelle when he left; it was a Huguenot stronghold and besieged from 1572-3, and a boat coming from from there might more logically put in at Portsmouth, Southampton on just along the south coast rather than making for London.

Even people with French ancestors who made it on to the Censuses aren't necessarily sure of finding their place of birth. There's no centralised system in France, and you have to know exactly where a birth was registered to be able to get a copy of the birth registration. In my experience, if a French person put on the Census more than just France, they tended to put the biggest town near to where they were born rather than Back-of-Beyond or Out-in-the-Sticks. Then there's no chance of finding them as a birth could be registered in any place that had a Town Hall, and there's an awful lot of them, far too many to go through

I think his name should be Jean (John) rather than Jeanne (Jane), but it would depend on his accent and how the hearer interpreted it.

 

I agree about the Jean/Jeanne but the transcription I have seen of his burial in 1585 puts Jeanne (unfortunately the original, although viewable on Ancestry is nigh uninterpretable now, although I can make out a few first names and Sonne or Daughter of)

I have no idea what Jean[ne] and son Walter did, I think the earliest recorded occupation I have for the family is Carpenter

I think it is possible that they came to England around the time of the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre, the evidence available would suggest that Walter's eldest son was born around 1572, though I am uncertain whether that would have been in England or France. The earliest baptism I can be certain occcurred in England is Walter's son Richard in 1585 (and it is thought he was the 6th child)

 

An Ancestry tree claims that 'Jeanne' died [presumably they mean was buried] on 11 December 1585. There is a burial on that date:

The first name is not Jeanne but John. I'm afraid I don't think the surname is Runnyer either . . . the first letter looks quite like the 'B' in the heading Burialls. There are a few examples of an 'R' on the same double-page spread, e.g. in Robert and Roger, and it looks quite different. I can't decipher the whole name but think it ends in 'ger'. So this may be a red herring.

 

oh, b....! , I agree --- opcdorset has transcribed it as Burger; however, there is a transcript in SoG that I spent hours going through that has Runnier or Runnyer or one of the many variants -- sorry that notebook is buried somewhere --- the name eventually became Runyard which I have seen as Bunyard (says I pathetically consoling myself )

 

Oh, mugwortismy cat, I feel quite guilty for having brought these French people to the fore I'm sorry! I can't really make out what is written on the old document, but it seems pretty clear that the first name is John. Not having the rest, I can't compare the so-called 'B', but it looks like a pretty funny 'B' to me (no aspersions are being cast on those of you who have been able to compare it with other 'B's). I thought it was a weird kind of 'H' myself ... just to introduce more confusion!

Then I suppose it says 'was' [buried] but even that looks like two words, the second one with a dot over it, and, as for 11th, well, all I can say is I obviously need to take a course in medieval handwriting! At least Walter's sonne Richard is written up nice and clearly!

 

There are some interesting names in Winfrith Newburgh which could suggest that the Runnyer family were not the only French in the village. Highly unlikely anyway, I would have thought, given how foreigners, of a particular race, stick together.

I saw a Giles Vinsen (Gilles Vincent?), a Robert Mory (Maury / Maurey?) and there was quite a rash of Hippolets (Hippolyte) with various spellings. Of course, this may be pure extrapolation on my part, so please don't hold it against me

It's all very interesting, though.

 

Oh, now don't feel guilty . This is a case of me trying to follow through on someone else's work, a Runyard descendant of the Runnier/Runnyers was a trained historian and spent a long time tracing the family back to the 1580s; he may have used sources that are not known to me -- all I have is a copy of the tree. Even if I am struggling to document Jean/Jeanne/John the first, and one or two of the links in the line, in the main I have been able to replicate what he found -- though I need to spend a lot more time looking at this family, I put them aside (for a bit of a rest) a few years ago now

Vincent is quite a common name in Dorset, though some of them may have French connections, I don't know

 

I've found some Elliotts being born in Saint-Pierre-lès-Calais; there seem to have been several families, as the children have different fathers. Being a glutton for punishment, I'll probably look at deaths and marriages, too, even though you said your husband doesn't have ancestors there.

I only looked through the 'E's in the ten-year tables, but as I was paging through the actual records, there were English names galore, and the father and/or the witnesses tended to be, surprise, surprise, "ouvriers en tulle", or just once a "fabricant de tulle" - a boss rather than a worker!

I've found a new interest, just when I really didn't need one ...