Priscilla Holt bapt 24 Jan 1808 St Leonard Heston MDX

Hello All,

Tracking back on my Holt side now.

Priscilla above is my 2nd g grandmother. She married Joseph Nott 15 Jul 1833 at Lambeth St John the Evangelist, Surrey, England. They had Sarah, William and Joseph (my g grandafather).

Priscilla's parents are John Holt and Pricilla Crouch.

John:
bap 27 Mar 1771 St James Clerkenwell
married 1 May 1797 St Mary Ealing
died 9 Mar 1817 Heston
I have John's parents as Joseph and Mary

Pricilla:
bap 3 Aug 1777 St Leonard Heston
died 4 Sep 1824 Heston
I have Pricilla's parents as Charles and Phebe

John Holt and Pricilla Crouch had 5 children - George, Mary Ann, John, Joseph and Priscilla.

I would appreciate any help going back with these families.

Wendy

 

Charles Crouch married Phebe Jones 12/12/1776 Heston - source West Middlesex marriage Index

 

I do not see any other children to Charles and Phebe but there is a burial at St Leonard Heston for Charles Crouch 24/4/1779 (on Ancestry).

The marriage of Charles and Phebe is also on Ancestry and Charles was a widower and Phebe a widow.

Charles Crouch married Susanna Sherbourn 13/9/1759
Susanna Crouch (wife of Charles) was buried 4/3/1774

 

I have always thought that I had found the correct marriage for Charles and Susanna 13 Sep 1759 and her death 4 Mar 1774. To see it in writing in the books scanned on Ancestry is amazing. And the marriage of Phebe and Charles - I did not know that Phebe was a widow! That brings a whole new family (from her) into it. I wonder when her first husband died? Probably not long, as the men were the bread winners and widows married quickly, as did widowers - for a wife to take care of all the children.

Thank you so much! Busy day today - will check in this afternoon.

Wendy

 

Good Morning,

I have been looking at the marriage on Ancestry of Charles and Susanna. It says he was of "Norwood Green" and she was "of this parish" meaning Heston.

Are there any directories available to see what his occupation was?

Also I have found a possible baptism for Charles Crouch. 7 Oct 1739, St George in the East, Middlesex, Borough is Tower Hamlets. Father is James Crouch, says his occupation is Ma or Mar? his mother is Anne.

I looked up Old English Occupations and there are quite a few that start with Ma - but Mar has Marbler, Marshall, Marshman - hard to tell exactly. I note from a few lines above in the baptism book that they have carpent (carpenter) and cordw (cordwainer). Is there a more dominant one, depending on the area that they lived in?

Thanks, Wendy

 

I would be inclined to think that Mar. is an abbreviation for Mariner

Ann

 

My thoughts exactly - there were quite a lot of them on those pages.

Did you see the sad entry for a baptism on the 12th Oct.
"Jane found at the WHouse door"

 

Yes, I did see that, very sad.

 

I fear this one may have died young, for there is also a burial at St George in the East for a Charles Crouch I [i.e. infant?], Bet[t]s St, in 1744. Though 'infant' might suggest 'baby', sometimes it was used for older children too.

Going back to the Crouch family in Heston . . . as Charles & Susanna called two of their sons George Smith Crouch and Harry Combs Crouch I have been looking out for connections with the names Smith and/or Combs.

A Robert & Anne Crouch had children baptised in Heston in 1740 and 1743. Looking for their marriage I found this one in Twickenham:

February 5th 1733/4 - Robert Crouch & Anne Combes both of the parish of Heston in Middx were married with Licence fro[m] the ArchB[isho]p of Cant[erbury]​

(Why did they marry at Twickenham? Did they have other children - including maybe a Charles? - baptised between Feb. 1733/4 and 1740?)

Also in Heston in the 1750s there are a couple of baptisms for sons of Robert & Ursula Heston. From FamilySearch a Robert Crouch and Ursula Sherbourn married in Mayfair in 1750. (The original might be on Findmypast in their Westminster marriages.) Is this the same Robert marrying again or a different one? Was Ursula related to Charles Crouch's wife Susanna?

 

On 18th July 1750 both of Heston at St George's Chapel Mayfair

 

Thanks MollyMay

Though it doesn't say so, I think both may have been married before. This is probably Ursula's first marriage, at St Mary the Virgin, Norwood Green in 1741:

July the 18th Married John Sherborn of Heston in Middlesex Batchelor & Usley or Ursula Cobit of the Chappelry of Norwood in the same County Spinster, by Licence from the ArchBp.

Then there are burials at Heston in 1749 for John Sherborn (Ursula's husband?) and for Anne wife of Robert Crouch.

 

I must go out. I find reading all this information you two are finding is very interesting. When you get into the earlier stuff it gets so much more complicated! Especially when I don't even know where they are from or whether they switch areas within London\MDX area.

Thank you so much, Wendy

 

Still no luck finding out exactly where Charles Crouch fits in but here is another piece of the Crouch jigsaw.

There is a PCC will for William Crouch of Twickenham, yeoman, who mentions wife Elizabeth, daughter Dina, son-in-law John Allem of Twickenham and granddaughter Betty Allem). His property in Twickenham is to go to his Betty when she is 21 or (if she dies before then) to the heirs of his daughter Dina 'lawfully to be begotten'. If there are no such issue the property is to go to 'Robert Crouch son of Robert Crouch late of Heston Blacksmith deceased and to his Heirs and Assigns for ever' [the 'son of Robert Crouch' is inserted as a marginal note]

(There is more but I don't think he mentions Robert son of late Robert Crouch again or explains how they are related)
Dated 29 May 1770
Probate granted 27 March 1771

The same property is mentioned in the PCC wills of Betty Allam and her father John Allam who survived her.

Dinah Crouch and John Allam were married by licence at Twickenham, 20 July 1761. I haven't spotted a baptism for Dina(h) yet but perhaps her parents are the William & Elizabeth Crouch who were in Hampton, Middlesex, in the 1730s? (A daughter Elizabeth was baptised there on 11 March 1736/7). A Dinah Crouch was buried at Hampton on 3 May 1736 - no indication of age. Perhaps she's an earlier daughter Dinah who died young.

There's a burial for William Crouch at Twickenham but again no indication of age. If he was having children by the 1730s he is perhaps a brother of the Robert Crouch of Heston who married in 1733/4.

 

Another interesting Crouch will is hiding on Ancestry as the transcriber has decided the testator's name is Cronch. (In fact there seem to be lots of Cronch folk on Ancestry, many of whom may well be Crouches in disguise.)

It's for Charles Crouch of the parish of St George Hanover Square, Middlesex, gentleman. Will dated 17 April 1764.

Summary: wife Margaret to have all household goods, furniture, etc., ready money, all real and personal estate, during her natural life and then it is bequeathed 'unto and amongst all and every the Children of my Brother Robert Crouch of Heston . . . Farrier and unto and amongst all the Children of my Brother Thomas Crouch of Nettlebed in the County of Oxon Farrier and unto and amongst the Children of my Wifes Sister Mary and her Brother Edward'
witnesses: Valentine Knight, John Dering
Probate granted 6 March 1767 at the PCC to Charles' widow Margaret Crouch

Perhaps he is Charles Crouch of Hampton in Middx Husb[andman] B[achelor] who married Margaret Hunt of Sunbury in Middx sp[inste]r, in January 1735/6.

This is from 'London, England, Clandestine Marriage and Baptism Registers' on Ancestry. A note next to each couple indicates the place of marriage - for Charles & Margaret it says 'Ark'. This may be the 'Noah's Ark, next Ludgate', one of the marriage houses kept by John Burnford. See p. 38 of The Fleet Registers comprising the history of Fleet Marriages and some account of the parsons and marriage-house keepers with extracts from the registers: to which are added notices of the May Fair, Mint, and Savoy Chapels by John Southerden Burn (1833) which is online on the Internet Archive.

https://
archive.org/details/fleetregistersco00burniala

 

Ancestry has a gap in the Twickenham St Mary registers between 1720 and 1755 (I hit upon he problem when looking for my own family).

From British History online (Heston St Leonards) - "About 1728 the vicar was at odds with most of the parish and about 1736-43 the curate, left in charge by a vicar who lived in Italy, neglected the registers"

Which could be why the marriage was at Twickenham (beautiful church close by) and why we cannot find a baptism for Charles.

 

Marriage at St Leonard Heston by licence on 22 July 1772 of John JONES bachelor & Phebe JONES spinster both of the parish and a subsequent burial at St Leonard Heston on 30 April 1775 of a John JONES. There is also a Marriage Licence Allegation for the same couple but does not give any more information other than they were both 21 or over.

Janet

 

John and Phebe Jones baptised one son at St Leonard's Heston on 22/11/1773 named John

 

Thank you Molly May, AnnB, Janet and Huncamunca!!
Wow! Huncamunca I have never even heard of this. Fascinating. Will have a look through. Ancestry is putting a lot of information on the site that has never been seen before..................
I'm building a spreadsheet, as I may not remember all this information.
Wendy

 

I saw this one too Janet and wondered. Could she be a relative of John, cousin, second cousin - not unheard of. Definitely requires more investigation.
Wendy

 

I have seen (in comments) a few other registers that are coming online. Furze and White's being a couple of them. I'm sure as time goes on, there will be tons of them. Makes for interesting reading though.
Wendy