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The Mysterious John BOWNESS

Discussion in 'Cumberland' started by Figgs, May 5, 2013.

  1. Figgs

    Figgs Well-Known Member

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    Just woke up to see this amazing post!! We are both hunting the same John Bowness Senior and son John Allanby Bowness!!!! Junior's brother was William I believe who moved to Scotland and I have stayed in that home!! Too hard to type on this wee tablet so will write later. John Allanby Bowness died in1824 and was married to Agnes Cleasby and in his Will he left her the home in Raisbeck!! He also left a huge amount of money to a Reverend George Bowness in Orton!!!

    This chance meeting is just incredible!! We each have intertwining opposite sides of this family and I will print it out and the two of us can untangle it!! Fantastic, to say the least! My father would be so thrilled to see this!! Will talk to you later, Paula! :D:D
     
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  2. Figgs

    Figgs Well-Known Member

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    WOW!! Thank you Arthur for the fascinating explanation and information. You folks are amazing!! Hugs from Brampton, Ontario!!

    {-(^^)-}
     
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  3. Elsiesgirl

    Elsiesgirl Well-Known Member

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    This has been absolutely fascinating to read. It's wonderful that you both have intertwining trees. I've been looking on your posts for people named Abbot to see if I could join in, but I don't think my Abbotts moved in such exalted circles, and didn't live on the coast.
     
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  4. dogwithabone

    dogwithabone New Member

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    Thanks for that Arthur--- Gge the younger was also described as a clerk in his mother's will so that probably is him--he is also I think a freemason in Kendal in 1797.
     
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  5. dogwithabone

    dogwithabone New Member

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    Just to say thanks again for the leads-I've been able to trace the family of George junior over in Chester le Street now--looking into Mallerstang for Robert--and the info on George snr confirms what I already supposed--
     
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  6. dogwithabone

    dogwithabone New Member

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    Don't know whether I have missed this but does anyone have the full details of the marriages of John 1764 and 1822-exact locations, ages, witnesses etc????
     
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  7. Figgs

    Figgs Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to John Bowness Senior and son John Allanby Bowness of Whitehaven, yes I have the details but not sure re witnesses. Just using tablet so no FTM on here. Will send data later. Are the wives Mary Allanby and Agnes Cleasby?! Too many John Bowness' in that area. But still hoping these two are the right ones..or let's just say I definitely lean that way. I must get in touch with the Ayrshire, Scotland Bowness descendant. She has investigated the Orton and Whitehaven areas and leans to these two as well. The only clue I have on the origin for William Bowness is a Scottish census but he just gives his birthplace as England!! Grrr!
     
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  8. dogwithabone

    dogwithabone New Member

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    Yes that's the two ----Agnes Cleasby is interesting----if she is the one born in 1776 in Orton-Scarside a farm near Raisbeck then she is quite old when she marries--as is John---If it is her there are some interesting links--her brother Bowness Cleasby b 1775 is a curate at Mallerstang in 1798, uncle Edward Cleasby same place, curate in 1789, --Robert Bowness b 1767 a definite cousin of John in Whitehaven was assistant curate there in 1795---uncle James Cleasby was a customs officer------
     
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  9. Figgs

    Figgs Well-Known Member

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    Dead on!!!! Thank goodness I talk to myself in FTM!! I have all sorts of notes re documents from 2001 and 2002 and this is most definitely the right Agnes Cleasby (her grandmother's name too). Her mother was Elizabeth Bowness and she married a John Cleasby. Both Cleasby and Bowness names intertwine thru the generations. Dad said Rev. George Bowness was from Orton and was John A's cousin. All sorts of Raisbeck and Orton references!! Name of home that John and Agnes lived in was Dawnsbank and it is in his Will. Double check the name BURN.....the executor was a John BENN of Whitehaven who also worked for Lord Lowther.

    This is just a teaser. I am still wading thru all my notes and must see what is in both my notes and Dad's Bowness book (formally called "Descendants of William Bowness of Kirkton, Scotland").

    PS....have both marriages, churches and witnesses. All the details. Just found that in my FTM notes. John A. and Agnes married (both at age 56) in Holy Trinity in Whitehaven. He died a year later. :D
     
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  10. dogwithabone

    dogwithabone New Member

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    Thanks--would be grateful for anything you can send.
    Daw Bank --I reckon is a farmhouse near Tebay--just to the W of Orton village. I drove past it a few weeks ago when I was out taking photos of old farmhouses. Grandma Agnes Cleasby was Agnes Blamire --sister of my ancestor Margaret--I have a photo of her grave in Orton. Slightly concerned about Agnes' age at marriage--thought she would be 46 rather than 56 but that could be a mistake. The Burn family were quite big wheels in the Cumbrian church--a John was curate at Caldbeck--his father Richard co-wrote a book called the History and Antiquities of Westmorland and ther is another Richard who was rector of Kirkandrews----
     
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  11. Figgs

    Figgs Well-Known Member

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    OK...will have to get back to you later....busy week here. These notes are from early on but I kept track as you do of anything that sounded possible. House was definitely called Dawnsbank and I have the Will here. I will find it bc he leaves 6000 GBP to George Bowness.....and children I believe. Huge amount for 1823! Later...
     
  12. dogwithabone

    dogwithabone New Member

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    Ah yes---I have found it in the will of Wm Bowness, grandfather of Agnes, --he leaves it to her siblings Eliz, Mary, Barbara and Margaret in 1804 and he says it is near Raisbeck. Looks like she might have brought it to the marriage anyway.There was a Robert Bowness living at Daw Bank in 1762 though which is why I thought it may be that one
     
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  13. dogwithabone

    dogwithabone New Member

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    Have been doing a lot of digging and have come up with some results!!!!
    There's an MI in Whitehaven HT-death of John Bowness 30/11/1823 no age given- buried along with his brother Thomas d 6/10/1808 age 42 (burial record age 41) I then checked the marriage records for John Bowness and Agnes Cleasby--no useful details on the parish record but on the marriage bond her age is 46 and his is 71---I checked with Preston archives and they have looked at the original for me and have confirmed this.
    I think this means that John is the one born in Raisbeck 1751 s of John 1719-1794 a coroner and Jennet Taylor 1729-1771. He has a brother Thomas b 1767 and a sister Elizabeth 1758-1785 and is the nephew of Rev George (1728-1780)and Agnes nee Sharp 1726-1816. He also has a cousin Rev George (s of these two) in Orton at the time of his will----
    With regard to Dawnsbank--it says in his will he bought it from Wm Wilkinson and Elizabeth Todhunter --Elizabeth is Agnes' sister and was left the property in her grandfather's will.
    Apparently there are some unusual details with this marriage bond and also the will of Agnes 1840 at Preston so I'm going to try to get there to see them.
    I'm still looking into John Bowness senior --but it looks like John Allonby Bowness b 1766 is not the John above--watch this space----
     
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  14. dogwithabone

    dogwithabone New Member

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    Update-----have checked the original marriage bond--John Bowness to Agnes Cleasby 1822, it incudes certificates signed by Robert Milner vicar of Orton giving their christening details as --John 1751 son of John and Jennet of Raisbeck, Agnes 1776 d of John and Elizabeth of Scarside. I also checked the Admin of John Bowness 1787--just mentions widow Mary and witnesses William and John Allenby of Flimby. I've checked some other Bowness wills, too much detail to put here but includes Agnes and Rev Robert--a cousin of John--if anyone would like the info from these let me know. I also checked the actual graves in Appleby of Elizabeth Orton--supposed sister of John Bowness customs officer---and George Bowness d 1793 and John d 1768---very interestingly they were all three in a row--possibly related???? I have photos of these graves and also the churches in Whitehaven and again if anyone would like copies let me know-------
     
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  15. Figgs

    Figgs Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to be so long in answering, but have some medical issues here that are hindering my research. I am fascinated by what you have found. I do have the Admin by Mary Allanby Bowness and the witnesses are her brothers. I did find her marriage in Flimby, but whoever did the "parish books" for that town put them into the next town's part......(2 small towns and one parish record book). A researcher from Tasmania of all places put me onto it because she is an Allanby descendant.

    I would be VERY interested in what you have photographed and found. You do have my home email address I believe. Or you can send it via PM on this forum or post it. I do apologize for the lack of contact, but been laid low by a bug of some sort. No energy whatsoever!! Btw, I found Mary's husband John's death in the Holy Trinity records.....my father missed it and thought it was HIM that married Agnes Cleasby in 1823 at an elderly age. I thought it was his son, John Allanby Bowness. So when I was in Carlisle, I did get lots of copies of letters written by his son to Lord Lowther as he worked for him as his Agent. Now it seems to be a third John Bowness.....very confusing! :eek:

    It will be wonderful to get these John Bownesses all sorted out. Seems to be a mixture of mine and yours and this is really amazing!! Thank you again and please bear with me till I get myself organized. :)
     
  16. dogwithabone

    dogwithabone New Member

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    Hi Heather---sorry you've not been well. Hope you improve soon. I've got a bit of a problem myself with a blocked tear duct and watering eyes---fortunately it doesn't trouble me too much in the nice air conditioned record offices!!!!
    I'll send some pics via email but will have to fiddle around resizing them first.
    Cheers-Paula
    PS---that baptism of John in Appleby in 1734 is the same entry as the one in Kendal---don't know why Family Search have listed it twice in two different places but Appleby is the right one---his father John was a blacksmith and there is an Admin 1768 for him and possibly one of his wife Mary in 1775 -on my list to look at in Carlisle. His grave is in front of that of James and Eliz Orton at Appleby.There is no baptism of a sister Eliz though. There IS an Elizabeth b 1743 in Orton to f John an innkeeper. He also has a daughter Eleanor but no indication of a son John. I've looked at his Admin and again there is no ref to a son John although that obviously doesn't necessarily mean there isn't one. I think I will have another look at that and see if there are any clues I have missed. I found the marriage bond for John snr's marriage to Mary --in the Carlisle Diocese records--and it said it was to take place in Flimby but as you say there was no record in that parish register.
     
  17. Figgs

    Figgs Well-Known Member

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    Quick note because using tiny tablet....due to both Flimby and Camerton (I believe) being such small villages, there was only one church, minister and record for both if memory is right. Theirs was in the Camerton part, not Flimby. I will check my notes later. Thanks!!
     

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