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Thomas Tovey Smith and his family

Discussion in 'Hertfordshire' started by annabel, Feb 4, 2017.

  1. annabel

    annabel Well-Known Member

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    Smiths - arggh!
    I'm trying to work out which ones were in the same family.

    Thomas was baptised 6th April 1806 to Samuel and Hannah, St Stephens, St Albans
    Thereafter I can't identify him.

    He may have died as there's a Thomas Smith baptised 22nd Dec 1811 same place and parents.

    Potential siblings: Samuel Partridge Smith (my ancestor) bap 1803 died 1857. His father Samuel was a butcher in St Albans, as was he.
    William Cannon Smith bap 1807, died 1880, mayor of St Albans.

    Can anyone help me untangle?
     
  2. Londoner

    Londoner Well-Known Member

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    Family Search has Hannah Partridge marrying Samuel Smith 4 Feb 1803 St Martins in the Fields, Westminster
     
  3. annabel

    annabel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, I have seen that. But as it's London I'm not sure if it's the right couple or not
     
  4. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Possible burial on 5 April 1809 of a Thomas SMITH, a boy, but it is at St Albans St Peter. I notice that the second baptism for Thomas SMITH refers to his father as Mr Samuel SMITH and there is a PCC Will in 1834 for a Samuel SMITH, Esquire of Woodhall Park, St Albans who was buried at St Stephens on 14 March 1834, aged 90 (source Hertfordshire Burial Index), so perhaps there was more than one Samuel SMITH having children in St Albans.

    There is this Thomas SMITH in the 1891 census of Monken Hadley, Hertfordshire (RG12/1053, folio 8, page 9) living at 171 High Street:

    Thomas SMITH Head Widr 84 Retired Gardener Herts St Albans
    Alexander WATSON Son in law M 55 Florist Scotland Nairn
    Mary A do Daur M 49 Herts St Albans
    + 1 Granddaughter & 1 Great granddaughter

    But in the 1881 census of Monken Hadley he states that he was born in St Albans St Peter and in the 1871 census that he was born in Colney Heath.

    The Hertfordshire Burial Index only shows the burial of two Thomas SMITHs at St Albans between 1806 and 1811, the one I have given you above and another at St Michael on 27 February 1811. There are no burials on the Index at St Albans between 1812-1841 of a Thomas SMITH whose age would correspond with a birthdate c1806.

    When did Samuel snr die and is he likely to have left a Will which may give some clues?

    Sorry not to have been more help and I do sympathise with the dreaded SMITH surname as it was my mother's maiden name and I still have not managed to get any further back with that line than my 3rd great grandfather after years of research.

    Janet
     
  5. Londoner

    Londoner Well-Known Member

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    I have folk in our tree from the Bedford area who married in London, similar distance.
     
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  6. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Another possible sibling, Hannah Toovey SMITH baptised in 1809 at St Stephen. Given that you say your Samuel SMITH was a Butcher, it would appear that there are two Samuel SMITHs married to a Hannah having children in St Albans St Stephen, the other being a Miller. Several other possible children baptised at St Stephen to Samuel & Hannah but deciphering which belong to which is going to be difficult until after 1812 when the professions are shown. FindmyPast have the original parish registers for St Albans so perhaps the best way for you to untangle your SMITHs is to take out a trial with them or try to access the records via your local Library or visit Hertfordshire Archives.

    Janet
     
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  7. annabel

    annabel Well-Known Member

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    Aah, I haven't seen one where he's called Mr, and I wouldn't have thought of it being relevant. Thank you. I don't think that death of Samuel is mine, so it looks like the second Thomas is from a different family.

    Samuel Partridge Smith spent much of his adult live at St Peters, so that burial of Thomas 1809 may be it

    Via a circuitous route, I think I have found a bit more family.
    William Cannon Smith mentioned husbands of Samuel Partridge Smiths daughters in his probate notice, so they look like siblings.

    in 1861 William C Smith is with his wife and a sister Caroline b 1840
    Her parents Samuel and Maria
    In 1841 Caroline, Samuel and Maria are living St Stephens with 4 more new siblings, 2 of whom's mother was Hannah, the other 2 Maria

    Therefore Hannah died between 1819 and 1837
    Maria's first child was 1837
    Samuel died 1841 - 1851 and became the miller of Sopwell mill, which Maria continued. I think he might be the one who died 1843 St Albans aged 65.

    But looking for records Hannah's death, or Samuel and Maria's marriage to prove it. And there's now a suspicious 10 year gap in Hannah's children between William Cannon 1807 and Frederick 1817
     
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  8. annabel

    annabel Well-Known Member

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    Ooh that sounds promising
    That may muck up my theory above:(
     
  9. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    The PCC Will for Samuel SMITH, Miller, of Sopwell Mill is on Ancestry so he is the Samuel SMITH who was buried on 25 June 1843 at St Stephen, aged 65. Bingo - in his Will he mentions his wife Maria, son William Cannon, son Samuel Partridge, son Frederick, son Joseph, children John, Thomas & Jane wife of Harry ASHFORD, daughter Mary wife of Jarvis OSBORN. He also mentions his 8 children by his late wife by name, so it would be well worth your while looking at the Will. Therefore, it would appear that Samuel snr was a Miller and not a Butcher, at least by 1812 when professions were shown in the parish registers.

    Janet
     
  10. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Baptism in 1779 at St Stephen for a Samuel SMITH - original image on FMP. Maria SMITH is shown in the 1851 census of St Albans St Michael as a Proprietor of Houses, aged 50, born Weston on the Green, Oxon, together with children Ann, Rhoda & Caroline.

    Marriage at Islip, Oxfordshire, on 15 October 1836 between Samuel SMITH of the parish of St Stephen St Albans in the county of Hertford, Widower, & Maria HORNE of this parish, Spinster, by licence.

    Janet
     
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  11. annabel

    annabel Well-Known Member

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    Well I couldn't see it last time I looked, that's wonderful. It sounds as though there are loads more children!
    I had just shelled out on FMP. His career as a miller, mealman and butcher seem to overlap. But I think the mill had a farm, so he just picked which one of his careers he wanted to be each time. Off to look
     
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  12. annabel

    annabel Well-Known Member

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    Wonderful thank you
     
  13. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Glad to be of help. Have great fun with sorting out all the children!

    Janet
     
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  14. Eve

    Eve Well-Known Member

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    Hi Annabel
    Your post caught my eye as I was once looking for a Mary Smith in St Albans, but as she was not a direct relative of mine I didn't pursue it further. However she would seem to be the same lady as yours. Mary was married to (as someone on this forum once described him) - the ubiquitous Jarvis Osborn. (Edit: Jan Booth from the post above this was the person who helped me loads and gave Jarvis the soubriquet ubiquitous!) After Mary's death Jarvis married my 4x Gt Aunt Mary Ann Bowater, who was also his first cousin!
    Anyway - as I say I dont have much in the way of facts to help you with but one little snippet is that Mary and Jarvis's son Thomas Bailey Osborn died in 1902 and the burial register states "Found dead on Ashtead Common" ...............I have yet to find the time to find out how !
     
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  15. Genie1

    Genie1 Well-Known Member

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    Was he this person?
    Dorking and Leatherhead Advertiser 09 August 1902
    Ellen Longley his sister-in-law identified Thomas Bailey Osborn.
     
  16. Eve

    Eve Well-Known Member

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    yep, that'll be him - his wife was Fanny Longley.
     
  17. annabel

    annabel Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's amazing, related by marriage, sort of. Mary Smith was my 4x G Aunt. How strange that we both still live in Herts.
    Was her name Stanbridge when he married her? I'll have to look up Thomas now.
     
  18. annabel

    annabel Well-Known Member

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    Thomas Bailey Osbourn was found dead having cut his throat while "temporarily insane". He lived at Peckham with Ellen, and presumably his wife who was ill, and worked as a telephonist, but one really knew why he did it. Very sad
     
  19. Eve

    Eve Well-Known Member

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    Hi Annabel
    Yes, a tentative connection there ! and I hadn't noticed the Hertfordshire connection too.
    Yes, Mary Ann was Stanbridge when she married Jarvis.
    Thanks Genie1 for finding newspaper report. Unfortunately my subs for newspapers has lapsed.
     

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