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Where in Cumberland?

Discussion in 'Cumberland' started by spison, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    From the news it seems that you were lucky that you got power back on. The whole state is one heck of a blackout!
    Jane (who now can't sleep!)
     
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  2. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    I like the Fort Cumberland idea too, but I'm wondering how and why an 18-year old born in Portsea could marry in Daresbury. Is there anything to suggest this Benjamin and Sarah ever went there, or originally came from there? On the other hand, if James moved here, there and everywhere during his childhood, that might explain why he didn't have much idea where he'd been born.

    I've tried looking to see what happened to John Jones. There's a possible in Deptford in 1851, married to a Mary Ann, whose mother Sarah Tull is helpfully there too. This leads to John and Mary Ann marrying in Alverstoke in 1845, but a transcription gives John's father as John. :(
     
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  3. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    Maybe I've got this wrapped round my neck but I'm still rather fidgety about the Fort Cumberland solution. It looks to be right from everything that's been written above but Fort Cumberland was a military fortress - it wasn't a barracks where families might live as far as I can see. Hampshire is also so far out of left field that it seems rather odd and rather easy to rewrite the census return because of what might be a letter C.

    My reasoning is also that 2 out of 3 other censuses give his birth place as Cumberland viz>

    1851: HO107/2203/55/46 Cumberland
    1861: RG9/2791/79/5 Warrington
    1871: RG10/3909/55/28 Cumberland

    Are those right?

    Daresbury/Warrington are not that far from Cumberland (Cumbria)...a fort that wasn't finished until 1812 at the other end of the country doesn't seem to fit so well.
     
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  4. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    Yes Flook, they are the censuses. I have attributed the 1861 result as an enumerator error who just plonked the entire family in Warrington. They are in Moulton, Cheshire in 1841 where all of them except their son Thomas were recorded as not born in the county. (My limited understandings are that sometime after this Warrington ended up in a different county.) He's variously a shoemaker or a cotton spinner before 1871.
    Jane
     
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  5. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I did come across two births at Fort Cumberland. One for a Jessie Selina Evans/Box in 1824 and another in 1842 on National Archives, under CoastGuard/Marines.
    Have the borders of Cumberland changed at all? I had a look in Cheshire for a town or village similar to no avail.
     
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  6. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Sue,
    I think we've both read the name of every village in Cumberland to see if anything matches ... but no. I've also got a copy of Phillimore's and I'm looking on the maps in Cumberland and around Daresbury/Warrington ... but again nothing.
    I've been trying to find other Jones families in Cheshire and Cumberland who were born in Hampshire and that is an onerous and futile exercise.:(
    Jane
     
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  7. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Working under the assumption that Fort could have been a misrepresented Port - how about Port Carlisle?
     
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  8. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    I certainly prefer Ann's suggestion - it sounds much more likely. There is a John JONES in the 1851 census of Botchergate, Cumberland (HO107/2429, folio 403, page 47) who is born c1805 at Carlisle, Cumberland living at 4 Wood Street with wife Mary and family plus an Edward G JONES in the 1851 census of Whitehaven who is born c1808 at Carlisle. Lots of JONES's baptised in Carlisle, including an Edward and a John but can I find a James - can I heck.

    Janet
     
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  9. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Reading up on Fort Cumberland in newspaper archives yesterday, there were several references around 1820 to barracks there.

    I wonder if the family made their way to Chester or Liverpool around the coast on a boat (as people frequently did back then) rather than travelling north by road?
     
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  10. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,
    All these wonderful thoughts and finds have taken me far further that I could ever have hoped alone - even though we have not found James or any potential members of his family. It has required some map reading here I can tell you!
    I have considered that as most likely - especially with the localities where the family was known to have lived and my limited understanding of the geography of the UK.
    Carlisle is much further but not impossible.
    So many Joneses! :(

    The baptism in Fort Cumberland, Portsea, matches so very well but we all know I can't accept it easily and why. I will plod along and try to track that family. (I already started but it takes so much time and I'm a little time poor. Arthur found one possibility that didn't pan out.) I will also try to track any Jones families living nearby. I have been working on the William Jones two doors from the family in 1851. Not going well I'm afraid.

    George's son, George, ended up in Newport, Monmouthshire, but he was the only member of the family I have yet found that left the Lancashire/Cheshire area during the 1800s and we've always believed he went there for work. This is also a fair trek from Hampshire but if extended family were there ...

    I appreciate your help, expertise, advice and searches. I'll keep chipping away!:headbang:

    Thankyou

    Jane
     
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