Till Family, Otterton

Discussion in 'Devonshire' started by Nabean, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Nabean

    Nabean Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to find out more about my grandmother's father's family (Till) from Otterton in Devon.
    I've managed to go as far back as 1695, when Edward, son of Edward and Jane Till was baptised at Ottery St. Mary, but I'm very interested in Ambrose Edwin Till (cousin Ambrose, as my nana used to refer to him as, although he was her uncle, I think). In the 1901 census, he was in Ireland (a coastguard in Balbriggan), and in 1911 (ditto S. Isle, Arran), but he and his wife, Isabella, have links to Pembroke, where he died in 1928.
    My nana said he was a bare-knuckle fighter in Devon, and had been forced to 'disappear', after killing a man in the ring. I dread to think what might have happened; I've looked in newspaper articles and criminal records, but can't find anything.
    Are there any sleuths out there?
    This is him, as a young boy (he was born in 1871).
    P1100104.JPG
     
  2. Nabean

    Nabean Well-Known Member

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    Ambrose was, in fact, my grandmother's cousin: her father's brother (George Edwin Till) had two sons, Ambrose Edwin and Walter Thomas, but his wife, Lavinia (23) died shortly after Walter was born, and the boys went to live with their grandparents, Thomas and Caroline Till.
    Amazingly, I have just discovered that a Walter Thomas Till (born in Otterton St. Thomas in 1873) emigrated to America, as the info on this site would indicate:
    Code:
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/87607930/walter-thomas-till
    (Clicky link removed as they have a shop :) )
    It's a free site, and enables you to trace descendants easily.
     
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  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Hadn't really heard the 'Till' surname before until yesterday I discovered one Lilian Grace TILL married my 4th cousin'ROGERS' in 1936- Lewisham reg. district.
    Living Woolwich 1939. ;)
     
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  4. Nabean

    Nabean Well-Known Member

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    @Ma-dotcom , it's a small world! You can imagine how difficult it is searching for the Till family, as every time the word 'till' appears, you get a result on Google!
    Free BMD is a good source, but I absolutely refuse to pay Ancestry, and now Find My Past for information which I regard as mine.
     
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  5. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    The US 1910 census shows them living in Hegins, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania

    Walter T Till, Married, age 37, born 1873 - No Profession.
    Jennie Till, Married, age 41, born 1869
    Mildred Till, Daughter, age 5, born 1905
    Mertle Till, Daughter, age 7 months, born 1910

    The 1920 US census Walter said he emigrated in 1883 and was nationalised in 1891.

    He must have come back to England at some point as he was sailing from Liverpool to Pennsylvania in 1894, sailing in the Indiana. He landed on 17th February 1894. His occupation was Bartender.
     
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  6. Nabean

    Nabean Well-Known Member

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    I think the 1920 census could be wrong (or he might have lied!).
    The 1891 census has him, aged 17, living with his brother, Ambrose, aged 20, with their grandparents, Thomas and Caroline Till in Otterton.
    He was working as a labourer in East Budleigh, and Ambrose was a sailor.
    That would tie in with the 1894 voyage to America.
     
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  7. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I wonder if the A Till, Carpenter age 30 as crew on the ‘Victoria’ of Greenock that arrived in Sydney from London on the 9th December 1905 could be him. States he was from London.
     
  8. Nabean

    Nabean Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so @Archie's Mum , Ambrose appears in the Ireland census in both 1901 and 1911, where he was working as a coastguard, with a wife (Isabella, and by 1911, 2 daughters (Violet Edith, 3 and Ellen (6 months).
     
  9. Nabean

    Nabean Well-Known Member

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    What I would like to find out is if he really did 'kill a man in the ring'! He turns up in the Ireland Census (Balbriggan 1901, and Galway 1911)as a coastguard.
    His wife, Isabella (b. Galway) died in Dec 1922, aged 42, and he died in Sep 1928, aged 57 (both in Pembroke).
    I know nothing about his daughters; I only found out the above information, before the Ancestry portcullis came down, years ago!
    Here is another (very grainy) photo of him, this time as a young sailor.

    42989875_955962911268126_2827404145214881792_n.jpg
     
  10. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Below is the link to the History of Bareknuckle Fighting website. They have a contact page so I was wondering if it would be worth whizzing off an email to them, asking about Ambrose.

    Code:
    https://historyofbkb.weebly.com/bkb-figureheads.html
    Just a thought... :)
     
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  11. Nabean

    Nabean Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, I'll investigate, but if it's anything like the 2 detailed emails I 'whizzed off' to The Australian Light Horse Association, re 'Cousin Arthur' (no response, not even an acknowledgement), I won't be holding my breath!
     
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  12. Nabean

    Nabean Well-Known Member

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  13. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Good luck and fingers, toes, eyes and paws crossed! :D
     
  14. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    TILL, Ambrose Edwin, of The Green, Pembroke, died 4th July 1928. Probate London 4th August to Ellen Eliza Williams, Widow.
    Effects £100

    Burial: 7th July 1928, St. Mary, Pembroke
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
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  15. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Hmmmm, why did Ambrose marry under the name of Alfred Till ?

    Isabella Till
    Age: 42
    Burial date: 19th December 1922, St. John, Pembroke Dock

    Birth: 23rd April 1879, Clonakilty, County Cork, Ireland
    Parents Joseph Eggleton & Matilda Gwyther

    Joseph Eggleton married Matilda Guyther on 6th September 1862 in St Mary, Pembroke
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
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  16. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Even though he married under the name Alfred Till in 1895 he gave his profession as 'Petty Officer, R.N.'

    I think Ambrose just went to Ireland as a part of his job in the Royal Navy.

    Name: Ambrose Edwin Till
    Birth Date:: 12th January 1871
    Birth Place: Otterton, Devon
    First Service Date: 4th January 1887
    First Ship Served On: Impregnable
    Last Service Date: 20th April 1915
    Last Ship Served On: Victory I
    Service Number: 140029

    Name: Ambrose Edwin Till
    Rank: PO
    Birth Date: 1870
    Residence Place: Pembroke Dock, Pembroke S.Wales
    Military Service Region: Wales, Wales
    Discharge Date: 20th April 1915
    Service Number: 140029
    Regiment: Royal Navy.
    Ship: "VICTORY"
    Title: Pension Record Cards
    Description: Pension Record Ledger

    First Name: Ambrose E
    Surname: Till
    Service Number: 140029
    Rank: Petty Officer, 2nd Class
    Record Year: 1919
    Unit: Royal Navy

    Name: Ambrose E Till
    Medal or Award: Star, Victory Medal, British War Medal
    Service Year: 1914-1920
    Service Location: Europe
    Campaign or Service: World War I
    Service Number: 140029
     
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  17. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Perhaps they have no one 'on the desk' capable of reading & responding to emails. :(
     
  18. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    @Nabean have sent you an email with Ambrose's naval service record. Tells you his hight, eye colour, hair colour and complexion too.

    + his marriage to Isabella.
     
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  19. Nabean

    Nabean Well-Known Member

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    @Chimp , "Hmmmm, why did Ambrose marry under the name of Alfred Till ?"
    Scandal (so did he kill someone in a bare-knuckle fight?)? Bigamy?
    and: 'I think Ambrose just went to Ireland as a part of his job in the Royal Navy.'
    I have managed to find out his addresses from the Irish coastguard website in 1901:
    4 Sea Lane
    Balbriggan Urban
    Dublin

    and 1911:
    81 Inisheer Street
    Inishmore
    Galway
     
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  20. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I can find no other marriage for Ambrose, so don't think it was bigamy.

    I couldn't work out why he was only on the 1871 census with his parents, the rest of the time he was with his grandparents. Then I found his mothers death in 1873.
     
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