I'm trying to find out more about my grandmother's father's family (Till) from Otterton in Devon. I've managed to go as far back as 1695, when Edward, son of Edward and Jane Till was baptised at Ottery St. Mary, but I'm very interested in Ambrose Edwin Till (cousin Ambrose, as my nana used to refer to him as, although he was her uncle, I think). In the 1901 census, he was in Ireland (a coastguard in Balbriggan), and in 1911 (ditto S. Isle, Arran), but he and his wife, Isabella, have links to Pembroke, where he died in 1928. My nana said he was a bare-knuckle fighter in Devon, and had been forced to 'disappear', after killing a man in the ring. I dread to think what might have happened; I've looked in newspaper articles and criminal records, but can't find anything. Are there any sleuths out there? This is him, as a young boy (he was born in 1871).
Ambrose was, in fact, my grandmother's cousin: her father's brother (George Edwin Till) had two sons, Ambrose Edwin and Walter Thomas, but his wife, Lavinia (23) died shortly after Walter was born, and the boys went to live with their grandparents, Thomas and Caroline Till. Amazingly, I have just discovered that a Walter Thomas Till (born in Otterton St. Thomas in 1873) emigrated to America, as the info on this site would indicate: Code: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/87607930/walter-thomas-till (Clicky link removed as they have a shop ) It's a free site, and enables you to trace descendants easily.
Hadn't really heard the 'Till' surname before until yesterday I discovered one Lilian Grace TILL married my 4th cousin'ROGERS' in 1936- Lewisham reg. district. Living Woolwich 1939.
@Ma-dotcom , it's a small world! You can imagine how difficult it is searching for the Till family, as every time the word 'till' appears, you get a result on Google! Free BMD is a good source, but I absolutely refuse to pay Ancestry, and now Find My Past for information which I regard as mine.
The US 1910 census shows them living in Hegins, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania Walter T Till, Married, age 37, born 1873 - No Profession. Jennie Till, Married, age 41, born 1869 Mildred Till, Daughter, age 5, born 1905 Mertle Till, Daughter, age 7 months, born 1910 The 1920 US census Walter said he emigrated in 1883 and was nationalised in 1891. He must have come back to England at some point as he was sailing from Liverpool to Pennsylvania in 1894, sailing in the Indiana. He landed on 17th February 1894. His occupation was Bartender.
I think the 1920 census could be wrong (or he might have lied!). The 1891 census has him, aged 17, living with his brother, Ambrose, aged 20, with their grandparents, Thomas and Caroline Till in Otterton. He was working as a labourer in East Budleigh, and Ambrose was a sailor. That would tie in with the 1894 voyage to America.
I wonder if the A Till, Carpenter age 30 as crew on the ‘Victoria’ of Greenock that arrived in Sydney from London on the 9th December 1905 could be him. States he was from London.
I don't think so @Archie's Mum , Ambrose appears in the Ireland census in both 1901 and 1911, where he was working as a coastguard, with a wife (Isabella, and by 1911, 2 daughters (Violet Edith, 3 and Ellen (6 months).
What I would like to find out is if he really did 'kill a man in the ring'! He turns up in the Ireland Census (Balbriggan 1901, and Galway 1911)as a coastguard. His wife, Isabella (b. Galway) died in Dec 1922, aged 42, and he died in Sep 1928, aged 57 (both in Pembroke). I know nothing about his daughters; I only found out the above information, before the Ancestry portcullis came down, years ago! Here is another (very grainy) photo of him, this time as a young sailor.
Below is the link to the History of Bareknuckle Fighting website. They have a contact page so I was wondering if it would be worth whizzing off an email to them, asking about Ambrose. Code: https://historyofbkb.weebly.com/bkb-figureheads.html Just a thought...
Thank you, I'll investigate, but if it's anything like the 2 detailed emails I 'whizzed off' to The Australian Light Horse Association, re 'Cousin Arthur' (no response, not even an acknowledgement), I won't be holding my breath!
TILL, Ambrose Edwin, of The Green, Pembroke, died 4th July 1928. Probate London 4th August to Ellen Eliza Williams, Widow. Effects £100 Burial: 7th July 1928, St. Mary, Pembroke
Hmmmm, why did Ambrose marry under the name of Alfred Till ? Isabella Till Age: 42 Burial date: 19th December 1922, St. John, Pembroke Dock Birth: 23rd April 1879, Clonakilty, County Cork, Ireland Parents Joseph Eggleton & Matilda Gwyther Joseph Eggleton married Matilda Guyther on 6th September 1862 in St Mary, Pembroke
Even though he married under the name Alfred Till in 1895 he gave his profession as 'Petty Officer, R.N.' I think Ambrose just went to Ireland as a part of his job in the Royal Navy. Name: Ambrose Edwin Till Birth Date:: 12th January 1871 Birth Place: Otterton, Devon First Service Date: 4th January 1887 First Ship Served On: Impregnable Last Service Date: 20th April 1915 Last Ship Served On: Victory I Service Number: 140029 Name: Ambrose Edwin Till Rank: PO Birth Date: 1870 Residence Place: Pembroke Dock, Pembroke S.Wales Military Service Region: Wales, Wales Discharge Date: 20th April 1915 Service Number: 140029 Regiment: Royal Navy. Ship: "VICTORY" Title: Pension Record Cards Description: Pension Record Ledger First Name: Ambrose E Surname: Till Service Number: 140029 Rank: Petty Officer, 2nd Class Record Year: 1919 Unit: Royal Navy Name: Ambrose E Till Medal or Award: Star, Victory Medal, British War Medal Service Year: 1914-1920 Service Location: Europe Campaign or Service: World War I Service Number: 140029
@Nabean have sent you an email with Ambrose's naval service record. Tells you his hight, eye colour, hair colour and complexion too. + his marriage to Isabella.
@Chimp , "Hmmmm, why did Ambrose marry under the name of Alfred Till ?" Scandal (so did he kill someone in a bare-knuckle fight?)? Bigamy? and: 'I think Ambrose just went to Ireland as a part of his job in the Royal Navy.' I have managed to find out his addresses from the Irish coastguard website in 1901: 4 Sea Lane Balbriggan Urban Dublin and 1911: 81 Inisheer Street Inishmore Galway
I can find no other marriage for Ambrose, so don't think it was bigamy. I couldn't work out why he was only on the 1871 census with his parents, the rest of the time he was with his grandparents. Then I found his mothers death in 1873.