Am I seeing a story where there isn't one?

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by Chimp, Jul 6, 2019.

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  1. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Clara Williams is born in 1876

    In 1891 she is a housekeeper for Edward and Mary Ann Morgan (who were brother and sister, not Clara's, they were just brother and sister)

    In 1898 Clara gives birth to an illegitimate daughter and names her Clara Jane Morgans Williams. in 1900 she gives birth to an illegitimate son, Pryce Williams.

    In 1901 she has become a live in housekeeper for a widower James Poole. She stays with him till 1919 when James dies.

    In the intervening years she gives birth to at least another 4 illegitimate children, all whilst being a live in housekeeper for Mr Poole, the last being Gertrude born in 1915. Girtrude was born at home (Mr Poole's home)

    Was Clara more than just a housekeeper for Mr Poole ?

    James Poole has a probate which I have sent for. I'm hoping that it may have a will and that Clara is mentioned.
     
    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  2. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I’d say ‘live in housekeeper’ looks better than ‘live in lover’ or de facto but yes probably a bit of a relationship there.
    The probate will tell all.......maybe.
     
    Archie's Mum, Jul 6, 2019
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  3. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    There will be no way of proving that James is the father of Gertrude, but as I can see it it is a best guess as to her father. I know that a DNA test of one of Gertrude's offspring could get some answers but not sure that the family want to go down that route and then they'ed have to hope that one of Mr Poole's family had done the test to be able to get a comparison.
     
    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  4. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Do the children's baptisms give any clues?

    I have a case where the children are registered with the mother's (married) name, but the baptismal surname is that of the man she is housekeeper for;)
     
    MollyMay, Jul 6, 2019
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  5. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Is this him?

    J poole.jpg
     
    Sis, Jul 6, 2019
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  6. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    John and Edward are presumably his sons, they are all on the same page in the 1901 census, where Clara's two children are listed as boarders. James was considerably older than Clara, perhaps the children belong to one of the sons? Or was he just a fit old fella?
     
    Londoner, Jul 6, 2019
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  7. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Can't find any baptisms for them.
     
    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  8. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  9. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Yes, John was born 1862 and Edward 1866.

    By 1901 both John and Edward were married with families of their own.

    I think that the old guy was enjoying himself:angel:
     
    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  10. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Well, I think it's a fair guess that James was the father, but I can't find anything which would back up the theory. I've tried everything I can think of in the papers to see if there was anything reported but, of course, if the children were his, James wouldn't be being chased through the courts for maintenance money as they were all living with him, and were, presumably, being well cared for. Have you found marriages for any of Clara's children? Might be interesting to see if a father is named on any of them, but that's a very long shot :(
     
    AnnB, Jul 6, 2019
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  11. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Servants/housekeepers were not normally retained once they became pregnant
    once, let alone 4 times and arrived with 1 or 2 children (depending on who fathered Pryce) which adds weight to Clara being more than just a paid employee.
     
    MollyMay, Jul 6, 2019
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  12. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    If they go the DNA route it will be interesting to see if any come up distant cousins to my hubby..he has both Morgan and Poole in his ancestors!!
    As for housekeeper, my 3x gr. grandmother was a "housekeeper" for the father of all her children. On some of the censuses they are down as Fields, (her name) and on others they are Croft. They were baptized Fields.
     
    Half Hour, Jul 6, 2019
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  13. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I've found that at least 4 of the children married but sadly none of the marriage registers are on line.

    In 1939 Pryce and his brother were living together with a housekeeper of their own. In 1941 Pryce marries the housekeeper.
     
    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  14. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    like father, like son;) but at least he married her!
     
    MollyMay, Jul 6, 2019
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  15. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Have got 5 of the children marrying now but can find nothing on Clara Jane Morgans Williams except her birth and the 1901-1911 censuses.
     
    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  16. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Me neither :headbang:
     
    MollyMay, Jul 6, 2019
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  17. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Thanks for looking MM ;)
     
    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  18. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I've just sent out a message to the family asking if they knew of an aunt Clara born 1898, but as the person I need information from is my contacts mother it may take a while to get a reply. As the lady who's aunt it is wasn't born till 1944 she may not remember her.
     
    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  19. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    As I suspected, she has no recollection of an Aunt by that name.
     
    Chimp, Jul 6, 2019
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  20. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    :(
     
    AnnB, Jul 6, 2019
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