Hello Pollyanna here with another family mystery. A lady called Ann is a Strong DNA match with me and also another member of my tree, My great grandparents were Charlotte & John Hall from Great Gidding Hunts, Ann is connected to this line.Ann wants to trace her bialogical mothers parents. Her mother was adopted at birth by a Mr & Mrs McCrum.the adoption was done through the local Telegraph newspaper. Ann's mother was called Marie Hall born 22/9/1914 her parents were given as Mabel nee Barring and Henry Hall. The birth was in Kidderminster Worcestershire.( given as a temporary address) Henry was a Travelling Salesman Mabel a Ladies Companion In letters to the McCrums it was stated that Mabel and Henry had been married 4 1/2 years, bur no trace of a marriage was found. And no one seems to be able to trace Mabel & Henry it seems there was a cover up somewhere. I think The McCrums may have lived in USA.
Mystery Adoption.
- Thread starter Pollyanna
- Start date
Archie's Mum
Always digging up clues
Looking around for Mabel Barring turned up zilch.
However in 1915 there is a christening of a Richard Anthony Barring, father Richard Michael Barring and mother Eva Mabel Barring. Essex. No sign of these two anywhere accept.....
That led me to the 1891 census where there was a nursechild age 0 by the name of RICHARD BARRING living with Arthur Kinnerley 22 a railway horn driver and his wife Rosa A Kinnerley. This in Chaddersden Derbyshire. Surprise, we find a 9 year old MABEL HILLIER with her sister Caroline age 16. No other Hilliers as far as I can see but this FS so there could be missing bits.
I wonder is this her??????
Is the Richard Anthony Barring born in 1915 another baby she gave up?
There is a tree on FS that has her marrying William Henry Amos in 1907 and a daughter Olive Rose Amos born 1909.
However in 1915 there is a christening of a Richard Anthony Barring, father Richard Michael Barring and mother Eva Mabel Barring. Essex. No sign of these two anywhere accept.....
That led me to the 1891 census where there was a nursechild age 0 by the name of RICHARD BARRING living with Arthur Kinnerley 22 a railway horn driver and his wife Rosa A Kinnerley. This in Chaddersden Derbyshire. Surprise, we find a 9 year old MABEL HILLIER with her sister Caroline age 16. No other Hilliers as far as I can see but this FS so there could be missing bits.
I wonder is this her??????
Is the Richard Anthony Barring born in 1915 another baby she gave up?
There is a tree on FS that has her marrying William Henry Amos in 1907 and a daughter Olive Rose Amos born 1909.
Last edited:
Archie's Mum
Always digging up clues
These two are Eva Mabel Shambrook and Richard Barring, Richard Anthony their son is regstered as BARRY, so I dont think they are involved in this enquiry.
Don't know how much of this I have right.
Marie Hall born as you say 22/9/1914 Kidderminster (supposed parents Henry and Mabel Hall nee Barring)
If I have the correct Marie then she married Leonard on 26/12/1936 in Holmewood, Derbyshire and died 1997 in Burnley, Lancashire.
She married under the name Marie Hall. Well this would be correct as official adoption didn't come about until 1926, therefore her birth name would stay the same.
Marriages Dec 1936
Pulford Leonard J - Hall - Chesterfield - 7b - 1943
Hall Marie - Pulford - Chesterfield - 7b - 1943
Derbyshire Times - 01 January 1937 - Page 4
HOLMEWOOD
PULFORD—McCRUM The wedding took place on Saturday. at Heath Church. of Mr Leonard James Pulford, son of Mr. and Mrs. H. Pulford, of Stockley Farm, and Miss Marie McCrum, adopted daughter of Mr. and Mrs. M. McCrum, Holmewood.
The bride was dressed in pink satin. with wreath of orange blossom and veil to match. The bridesmaids were Misses R. Pulford, A Fletcher, I. Foers, .J. Woodgett and Barbara and Marjery Cooper. The best man was Mr. C. Woodgett (uncle of the bridegroom), and the groomsman Mr. H. Pulford, junr. The Rev. W. Dick officiated, assisted by Capt. Dungworth. The organist was Mr. T. Short, and the hymn was "Love Divine, all loves excelling."
A reception. attended by 100 guests, was held at the Holmewood Hotel. Mr. and Mrs. Pulford will reside at 19. Devonshire Terrace.
Derbyshire Times - 16 April 1937 - Page 20
The death occurred at 19, Devonshire Terrace, Holmewood. on Wednesday last, of Mr. M. McCrum. at the age of 65, after a brief illness. Mr. McCrum has resided in Holmewood for many years, prior to removing to Devonshire Terrace he was at Wood Street. He leaves a widow and daughter. The funeral took place at Heath Churchyard on Monday, Captain Dungworth, CA., officiating. The hymn, " Abide with me," was sung, Mr. T. Short being at the organ. Chief mourners were:- The widow ; Mr. and Mrs. L. J Pulford, Mr. Mrs. and Wm. McCrum, Mr. and Mrs. D. B. McCrum, Mr. and Mrs. J. McCrum, Mr. and Mrs. A. McCrum, Mr. and Mrs. J. Spurr Mrs. S Sanderson, Mr. and Mrs. A. Foers, Mr. Waiter McCrum, Miss E. Foers, Mr. Mrs H. Pulford, Mr. H. Pulford, jun., Miss B. Gillam, Mr. R. Breed. The bearers were: Messrs. W. The Wilkinson, C. Woodhead, J. Stone, W. Merril and A Newman. Flowers were sent by the mourners, also by Mr and Mrs. B. C. Hewitt and family ; Lewis Florrie and family ; Mr. and Mrs. Wm. Ashmore and family ; Mr. and Mrs. J. Spencer and family ; Mrs. Dooley and family ; Neighbours of Devonshire Terrace Holmewood.
Died on Wednesday 7th April 1937
Buried on Monday 12th April 1937
Michael McCrum was a miner at Hardwick Colliery. Michael had married Fernetta Foers on 26/12/1905 in the parish church, St. James, Woodhouse, Sheffield
Michael's parents were William and Janet McCrum, they had spent some time in Pennsylvania in the early part of 1870's, Where they had 2 sons, Michael and William, they returned to Lanarkshire prior to 1875 as their next son David was born there.
Looks like William McCrum went out to the USA first. Janet aged 19 and Young James aged 10/12 (10 months) followed travelling steerage, departing Glasgow, Scotland and Moville, Ireland on the ship Caledonia, arriving in New York, USA on 22 Nov 1869.
In 1870 William, Janet and their first born James can be found living in Hickory Township, Mercer County, Pennsylvania, where William is a coal miner.
Fernetta's burial:-
Burial: 2 Dec 1970 Burnley Cemetery, Burnley, Lancashire, England
Fernetta McCrum -
Age: 87yrs
Abode: Cleaver St
But none of this helps with who her natural parents were.
What if the named parents on her birth was a total fabrication. Maybe her mother was a Mabel Hall but the maiden name and husband were totally fictitious.
Marie being born in Kidderminster is no help as you say this was a temporary address.
Just say for instance that Mabel Hall was her mother's real name, but she had gone to Kidderminster to have the child.
So Marie started off in Worcestershire, was living in Derbyshire when she married and died in Lancashire.
I wonder if there was another place between Worcestershire and Derbyshire.
Could her mother have originally come from Nottinghamshire.
There is this following baptism
There is a baptism in St. Wilfrid, Kirkby in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire on 18/11/1914, the mother is Mabel Hall, no fathers name given.
Now Kirkby to Holmewwod (Holmewood being where the McCrum's came from) is only about 9 n half miles.
Marie Hall born as you say 22/9/1914 Kidderminster (supposed parents Henry and Mabel Hall nee Barring)
If I have the correct Marie then she married Leonard on 26/12/1936 in Holmewood, Derbyshire and died 1997 in Burnley, Lancashire.
She married under the name Marie Hall. Well this would be correct as official adoption didn't come about until 1926, therefore her birth name would stay the same.
Marriages Dec 1936
Pulford Leonard J - Hall - Chesterfield - 7b - 1943
Hall Marie - Pulford - Chesterfield - 7b - 1943
Derbyshire Times - 01 January 1937 - Page 4
HOLMEWOOD
PULFORD—McCRUM The wedding took place on Saturday. at Heath Church. of Mr Leonard James Pulford, son of Mr. and Mrs. H. Pulford, of Stockley Farm, and Miss Marie McCrum, adopted daughter of Mr. and Mrs. M. McCrum, Holmewood.
The bride was dressed in pink satin. with wreath of orange blossom and veil to match. The bridesmaids were Misses R. Pulford, A Fletcher, I. Foers, .J. Woodgett and Barbara and Marjery Cooper. The best man was Mr. C. Woodgett (uncle of the bridegroom), and the groomsman Mr. H. Pulford, junr. The Rev. W. Dick officiated, assisted by Capt. Dungworth. The organist was Mr. T. Short, and the hymn was "Love Divine, all loves excelling."
A reception. attended by 100 guests, was held at the Holmewood Hotel. Mr. and Mrs. Pulford will reside at 19. Devonshire Terrace.
Derbyshire Times - 16 April 1937 - Page 20
The death occurred at 19, Devonshire Terrace, Holmewood. on Wednesday last, of Mr. M. McCrum. at the age of 65, after a brief illness. Mr. McCrum has resided in Holmewood for many years, prior to removing to Devonshire Terrace he was at Wood Street. He leaves a widow and daughter. The funeral took place at Heath Churchyard on Monday, Captain Dungworth, CA., officiating. The hymn, " Abide with me," was sung, Mr. T. Short being at the organ. Chief mourners were:- The widow ; Mr. and Mrs. L. J Pulford, Mr. Mrs. and Wm. McCrum, Mr. and Mrs. D. B. McCrum, Mr. and Mrs. J. McCrum, Mr. and Mrs. A. McCrum, Mr. and Mrs. J. Spurr Mrs. S Sanderson, Mr. and Mrs. A. Foers, Mr. Waiter McCrum, Miss E. Foers, Mr. Mrs H. Pulford, Mr. H. Pulford, jun., Miss B. Gillam, Mr. R. Breed. The bearers were: Messrs. W. The Wilkinson, C. Woodhead, J. Stone, W. Merril and A Newman. Flowers were sent by the mourners, also by Mr and Mrs. B. C. Hewitt and family ; Lewis Florrie and family ; Mr. and Mrs. Wm. Ashmore and family ; Mr. and Mrs. J. Spencer and family ; Mrs. Dooley and family ; Neighbours of Devonshire Terrace Holmewood.
Died on Wednesday 7th April 1937
Buried on Monday 12th April 1937
Michael McCrum was a miner at Hardwick Colliery. Michael had married Fernetta Foers on 26/12/1905 in the parish church, St. James, Woodhouse, Sheffield
Michael's parents were William and Janet McCrum, they had spent some time in Pennsylvania in the early part of 1870's, Where they had 2 sons, Michael and William, they returned to Lanarkshire prior to 1875 as their next son David was born there.
Looks like William McCrum went out to the USA first. Janet aged 19 and Young James aged 10/12 (10 months) followed travelling steerage, departing Glasgow, Scotland and Moville, Ireland on the ship Caledonia, arriving in New York, USA on 22 Nov 1869.
In 1870 William, Janet and their first born James can be found living in Hickory Township, Mercer County, Pennsylvania, where William is a coal miner.
Fernetta's burial:-
Burial: 2 Dec 1970 Burnley Cemetery, Burnley, Lancashire, England
Fernetta McCrum -
Age: 87yrs
Abode: Cleaver St
But none of this helps with who her natural parents were.
What if the named parents on her birth was a total fabrication. Maybe her mother was a Mabel Hall but the maiden name and husband were totally fictitious.
Marie being born in Kidderminster is no help as you say this was a temporary address.
Just say for instance that Mabel Hall was her mother's real name, but she had gone to Kidderminster to have the child.
So Marie started off in Worcestershire, was living in Derbyshire when she married and died in Lancashire.
I wonder if there was another place between Worcestershire and Derbyshire.
Could her mother have originally come from Nottinghamshire.
There is this following baptism
There is a baptism in St. Wilfrid, Kirkby in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire on 18/11/1914, the mother is Mabel Hall, no fathers name given.
Now Kirkby to Holmewwod (Holmewood being where the McCrum's came from) is only about 9 n half miles.
Last edited:
William and Janet McCrum's first child was James b. 1868 in Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland
James McCrum
Birth year 1868
Birth place Old Monkland,Lanark,Scotland
Father - William McCrum
Mother - Janet Baxter
Marriage date - 31 Dec 1867, Old Monkland,Lanark,Scotland
William McCrum
Janet Baxter
MCCRUM, William (Miner, age 62).
Died at Woodhouse; Buried on December 16, 1907 in Unconsecrated ground;
Grave Number 45, Section D of Woodhouse Stradbroke Road Cemetery, Sheffield.
MCCRUM, Janet (Widow, age 60).
Died at Woodhouse Mill; Buried on July 7, 1911 in Unconsecrated ground;
Grave Number 45, Section D of Woodhouse Stradbroke Road Cemetery, Sheffield.
Oh found a picture of Michael McCrum
James McCrum
Birth year 1868
Birth place Old Monkland,Lanark,Scotland
Father - William McCrum
Mother - Janet Baxter
Marriage date - 31 Dec 1867, Old Monkland,Lanark,Scotland
William McCrum
Janet Baxter
MCCRUM, William (Miner, age 62).
Died at Woodhouse; Buried on December 16, 1907 in Unconsecrated ground;
Grave Number 45, Section D of Woodhouse Stradbroke Road Cemetery, Sheffield.
MCCRUM, Janet (Widow, age 60).
Died at Woodhouse Mill; Buried on July 7, 1911 in Unconsecrated ground;
Grave Number 45, Section D of Woodhouse Stradbroke Road Cemetery, Sheffield.
Oh found a picture of Michael McCrum
Last edited:
AnnB
Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!
Looking at the 1921 census, Marie Hall is enumerated as living with the McCrums (Michael born Pennsylvania and Fenetta in Yorkshire) as their adopted daughter. Where it states whether the child's parents are still alive or dead, it states 'Don't Know'.
Thank you for all your hard work you have definitely got the right family, as the names McCrum Pulford, Foers are all correct, I dont know how much of this Ann knows but I will tell her of your findings. The only thing is still the Mabel Hall/Barring there is definitely a Hall involved somewhere as that is how we are related. My great grandfather was John Hall born in Great Gidding Hunts around 1841. His Wife Charlotte had 2 children before marrying John (no one knows if they were his,) There was a Mabel Hall in Glatton Hunts in 1911 census and another contender whose family Ann's family contacted but got no reply was the Hon. Venitia Marjorie Mabel Baring who was a lady in waiting of Queen Mary.!!! It is all a mystery and I think a lot o things hidden or made up.
Archie's Mum
Always digging up clues
Working on Chimps theory I looked into the family of John Hall and his wife Charlotte (Knight) (your Great grandparents) post#10. They had a few children but one stands out. Edward Hall born 1868 Great Giddings. He married Charlotte Glover at Oundle in 1891. On the 1911 census he is farm labourer and with his wife Charlotte and children Maude age 15, Frederick, MABLE age 10 and Robert John age 1. This makes his Mable about 15 in 1915, What if this is her? And as Chimp mentions, the rest is all made up. Possibly by the parents.
Mable Hall Huntingdon 1899 March qtr
Mable Hall Peterbro 1901 Dec qtr.
A bit young but it happens.
That is certainly a possibility I have looked at Edward and Charlotte and their children but did'nt realise they had a Mabel. That could be why there was so much made up. Although it was said Mabel was a ladies companion so don't know if she would be too young unless that was also made up. Thank you.
This Mabel was born 3rd quarter 1900 in Oundle, mother's maiden name Glover.
In 1901 she is enumerated as Florence
1911 as Mabel.
Thanks I think because she was originally Florence is why I didn't notice her when I last looked at their children.
Archie's Mum
Always digging up clues
Would be interesting to know how her life was. Did she continue as Mabel or revert back to Florence? Did she marry? All these questions.
Can anyone check the 1921? Please.
Can anyone check the 1921? Please.
Archie's Mum
Always digging up clues
Wondering…..the supposed father Henry is said to be a travelling salesman, she a ladies companion. Maybe the supposed Henry was a traveller but a Romany one.
Was there a gypsy presence in Oundle or surrounds?
This Mabel would be far too young to be a ladies companion, surely.
Was there a gypsy presence in Oundle or surrounds?
This Mabel would be far too young to be a ladies companion, surely.
Not so sure, I have a brother to my Great grandmother who was a pupil teacher at age 14.
Archie's Mum
Always digging up clues
This family likes reversing names. Robert John is registered John Robert. If that’s him ie.
In 1911, Mabel was with her parents living at Morborne Near Yaxley Peterborough, Huntingdonshire
Don't know if this is Mabel, but there is this marriage.
Marriages Dec 1919
Hall Florence M - Stretton - Peterbro' - 3b - 755
Stretton Peter - Hall - Peterbro' - 3b - 755
On the 1921 census they are at North Street, Stilton, Northamptonshire
Peter was born 1899 Notting Hill, London and is a chimney sweep (own account)
Mabel says born 1900 Great Gidding, Cambridgeshire
They have a daughter Irene born 1920 Stilton, Northamptonshire (Irene Sarah Stretton)
In 1939 they can be found living at 2 Milton Street, Peterborough, Northamptonshire. Enumerated as Mabel Stretton and written over the top is Florence Mabel. Irene is not with them but they have another daughter Bessie born 12th August 1922
Now Peter's occupation is Shop Keeper Grocery Own Account.
Later Peter ran a taxi business.
Peter died 8th December 1958 and Mabel died in 1966
I wonder if you're DNA results match to any of the Stretton family?
Don't know if this is Mabel, but there is this marriage.
Marriages Dec 1919
Hall Florence M - Stretton - Peterbro' - 3b - 755
Stretton Peter - Hall - Peterbro' - 3b - 755
On the 1921 census they are at North Street, Stilton, Northamptonshire
Peter was born 1899 Notting Hill, London and is a chimney sweep (own account)
Mabel says born 1900 Great Gidding, Cambridgeshire
They have a daughter Irene born 1920 Stilton, Northamptonshire (Irene Sarah Stretton)
In 1939 they can be found living at 2 Milton Street, Peterborough, Northamptonshire. Enumerated as Mabel Stretton and written over the top is Florence Mabel. Irene is not with them but they have another daughter Bessie born 12th August 1922
Now Peter's occupation is Shop Keeper Grocery Own Account.
Later Peter ran a taxi business.
Peter died 8th December 1958 and Mabel died in 1966
I wonder if you're DNA results match to any of the Stretton family?
Last edited: