The 2 Missing Turner Girls

Timothy Turner and Mary Ann (Welbeloved) had 16 children in Twickenham (Brentford reg district).
The family and some of the younger children are on the 1851 census - Back Lion Rd
HO107/1698/573/12

I cannot find out what happend to
Ellen birth reg Dec qtr 1849
or Emily birth reg June qtr 1845

I have looked at the Ellen Turner deaths in the Brentford reg. district (1861 +/- 10 years) but none of them have an age remotely like what Ellen would have been.

Emily can be found in 1861 in the Stanwell Union Workhouse with her twin Timothy and her younger sister Rosina (RG09/765/113/8 - Tim page 6). I have them sorted.
Their father died in 1861 and was buried 3/8/1861, but I cannot find him on the 1861 census
Their mother died 1868 and was buried 28/10/1868, and I cannot find her on the 1861 census

Any help greatfully recieved as ever.

 

There is a death for an Ellen Turner
TURNER, ELLEN -0 yrs
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 05 Page 185

 

Sorry, I too cannot find Timothy & Mary in the 1861 census records. I can find Emily's marriage to John Henry HADLEY at St Paul Hounslow Heath on 9 September 1877 where her sister Catherine was one of the witnesses. I thought Timothy & Mary might have been in a Workhouse somewhere and just recorded by their initials, especially as their younger children were, but their burial records do not seem to suggest that, do they.

Janet

 

There is a marriage for Emily Turner, father Timothy Turner, labourer, deceased, to John Henry Hadley on the 9th September 1877 at St Paul’s Hounslow Heath (Ancestry). Emily’s age is given as 28 on the cert

Snap Janet - I had no luck with the census either.

 

Thanks for looking Wendy, Greenwich is the Kent side of London, this lot are West London.
Ellen is on the 1851 census with her family, and other than her birth reg is all that I can find on her.

 

Thank you both Janet and Ann - I have no idea how I missed that marriage, and I did look -honestly but obviously not very well!

All very strange why the 3 little ones were in the workhouse and no sightings of either parent. Quite a few of the Turners vanish in 1861 only to reappear in 1871, and I have checked the missing pieces and none of them are in the Twickenham/Hanwell/Feltham areas where they seemed to stay close to.

 

There is an Emily Turner, aged 23, single, domestic servant born Twickenham on the 1871 census - RG10/1381/(no folio number)/35 - St. Alban's Road, Watford, Hertfordshire. Head of family is Clement Heaton.

Could this be Emily?

 

The other one is her sister Rosina's husband

 

It look very much like it - thank you.

Well that has tied up 15 of the 16 children, just little Ellen and I still can find nothing on her other than the birth reg and the 1851 census.
As the family obviously became in distress between 1851 and 1861 I wonder if she was 'unofficially adopted' by another family.

Thank you everyone for your help

 

I was wondering the same. I did have a look to see if one of her elder siblings had taken her on, but couldn't see anything.

If she was 'unofficially adopted', then she could be listed as anyone - and would they even know where she was born?

 

Yes I did the same, they all had children called Ellen, but much younger.
I think she will remain a mystery

 

I did find a burial for an Ellen Turner aged 6?, on 8 September 1854, in the Parish of St. James' Church, Bermondsey, Surrey.

The address given was 5 Alfred Place, Bermondsey.

GRO has a death registration of an Ellen Turner (aged 5) in the September quarter of 1854 - St. Mary Magdalene Bermondsey Surrey Reg. District.

I wonder if this is your Ellen?

I tried looking for Electoral Registers for Bermondsey in the 1850's but couldn't see any - was trying to find Timothy to see if he appeared at that address.

 

Now that is interesting @Jellylegs.
My connection to the Turners is the daughter Harriet who married John Joseph West in Twickenham in 1847.
They Baptise a son Henry Richard West in Twickenham in 1853, and this little chap is buried at St James Bermondsey on 11/6/1854. Their abode is Rose Court.
I have never found Harriet and John in 1861, although John may be back in Twickenham then, as Harriet set up home with one Henry Twort at some point, but carries on baptising children with their father named as John West!

I tried to find Alfred Place and Rose court on my Victorian A - Z but without any luck.

Oh and going through my notes I have found another child born after Ellen in 1852, so will have to try and trace him (tomorrow).

 

According to maps.thehunthouse dot com if I have the correct place, Rose Court is now Brune Place Newington (pre 1929)

 

There was a Rose Court in East Smithfield, just the other side of the river to Bermondsey. Alfred Place seems to have been part of Salisbury Place, Bermondsey St James. I don't know it these are the right places, but both were ravaged by cholera in 1854.

This from The Sun of the 3rd August 1854, and there are other similar reports
At 10, Rose-court, Upper East Smithfield, on 28th July, the son of a labourer, aged 3 years, "cholera (30 hours)." Dr English in his certificate says:—"The water-closets in Rose-court, owing to their not being emptied, made the court smell horribly." Mr Harris adds—"Another child is ill. The landlord has for years bid defiance to the parish authorities; he has been warned and summoned and fined by the magistrates at the Thames police. He promises to let the soil into the drain to-morrow. Thirteen houses are in a thin small narrow court; very small confined yards to each house; and I believe every room is nearly filled with poor Irish. About 50 houses near the above are in the same wretched condition as Rose-court.

 

I saw that one but it is a fair way from Bermondsey.

I think @AnnB is pretty spot on - thank you. That sounds more like the sort of place my lot would be living, as ghastly as it sounds, no wonder they moved about such a lot.

 

The 17th child of Timothy and Mary born 1852 Twickenham and died in 1854 in Alfred Place Bermondsey The address had the additional information Salisbury Street, so definitely what Ann found.
So Harriet West buried her son on 11/6/1854, her sister Ellen on 8/9/1854 and her brother George on 13/9/1854, whether her parents were with them I do not know, but dreadfully sad.

 

Bless me if I didn't also come upon Alfred St. Bermondsey today with Family 'Mann' Baptisms, 1877 no.13. also many others on same pages for that address.
Two other families there 30 + 32 possibly related.

 

I couldn't help myself, I counted the burials of children under 5 at St James Bermondsey 1854 between the burial of Henry Richard on 11/6 and George on the 13/9 and it came to 384. Yes a big parish, but so many little ones perished and there were plenty of 5 - 10 burials as well