I think that I may have found Charles (Orlando) but would like an opinion. Going by Smith and Tre/i/gwell and the 1893 birth sis found,I found the family in 1911,living at 13,Melbourne Street,Brighton,Sussex. Charles born St Germans 1867 and a general labourer. Wife Mary born Horsham,Sussex. Seven children born alive -2 died. Married for 19 years. Children born Horsham and Brighton. I have found Winifred born 1911 at Brighton has mother's name Trigwell. How that will prove the tree on ancestry that this may be orlando I don't know. There are Charles Smith's born St Germans so whether he is one of those and not Orlando in disguise, I don't know.
I have just found the death that you mentioned on family search. Charles Venner died age 73 at South Albany Road,Redruth on the 2nd January 1940 and he was buried in consecrated ground -private. Why private? I can't find him in 1939. Is he Orlando?
Trying to sort out him again. I think that the one in the censuses may be the one born in Redruth with mother name Cullum. 1901 and 1911 census has Charles Venner and wife Ellen (1873) living at Redruth with their children. Parents and children born Redruth. Charles occupation is a mason which Orlando Charles family trade was. This Charles Venner married Ellen Hunt March qtr 1890. They have a son named born 1890 at Redruth but is can't find them in 1891. Looking at the Charles's that I am following his army records show the last page is a deserters certificate. August 1891. The 1st page has discharged by purchase from Royal Artillery. Ploughing through the document there is page dated 27 August 1891 and that is a court of enquiry. It also says description of court which tried and it looks like Singapore 27 February 1891. He was illegally absent since 6 August 1891 and that he was deficient of the following articles. Another page has -certified that the pocket ? of Gunner Charles Venner was not forthcoming when he deserted Fort Grange ,Gosport on the 5th August 1891. If anybody has Army knowledge can they tell me if they found Charles and he appeared to face charges or did he disappear completely. Was he in Singapore and what is the word after pocket.
Think I found them in 1891 at Mount Carbis, Raymond Road, Redruth - RG12/1846/26/15 - FMP have them transcribed as DENNON. Charles - Head - b. 1867, Redruth - Mason Ellen - Wife - b. 1871, Redruth John - Son - 8 months (b. 1891), Redruth.
Cornwall OPC has a burial of a Charles VENNER on 2 Jan 1940, Redruth Cemetery. It gives his address as 4 South Albany Road, Redruth. Looking for that address on the 1939 census, (FMP transcription) finds a Charles VINER b. 25 Aug 1866 - widow, an invalid. Also a June VINER b. 14 Aug 1909 - I think this is probably Jessie. There is also a Betty, born 1923 - surname crossed out and CHAPPELL entered above. This looks like the chap in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census - but is he your Orlando Charles?
Not him. Found him in 1881 living in Redruth. His father came from St Austle and mother from Mevagissey. He is possible that he is the chap in an earlier post who that changed his name,
The Army Pocket Book was issued to every man. A bit like a Log Book. It contained the rules & regulations, and also his personal details: date of enlistment, postings, next of kin, Will, promotions, pay, etc. Do you have a link to the Record you found, Genie? Too many Venners for me to choose from! Jane
Probably not. I found the information on FMP army records. He is Charles Venner born 1866. He didn't add Orlando but he is the correct chap because his parents and siblings are on the document. I spelt St Austell incorrectly. I must write it out 10 times.
Gunner 64122, Royal Artillery Attested at Devonport, 14 October 1887 Aged 21y, born Landrake. Parents: William & Emma. Younger bros: William, Albert & Sidney. Sisters: Jessie & Lena/Zena. Previous service with Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry - discharge by purchase (ie he bought himself out). A Mason by trade. Regiment posted to Singapore, 4 April 1888. (3-yr stint) Enjoyed the local brothels & alcohol. Regiment returned to UK (Gosport, Hants), Feb-April 1891 (on the "Himalaya", so that's where you should find the Census return). Went AWOL (from Gosport) on 5/6 August 1891 - Declared a Deserter. Jane
I can't find Charles Venner in the 1891 census but Charles Smith born 1866 (he is mentioned in a previous post) appears in 1901 at 58,Gladstone Place,Brighton,Sussex.Born in Cornwall and a general labourer. With wife Eliza born 1874 and son Charles born 1893 at Horsham,Sussex and daughter Annie born 1899 at Brighton,Sussex. RG13 Piece number 925.Folio 131,Page 30.
My apologies Genie1 - the "Himalaya" doesn't appear to have had any passengers on Census night 1891. Without another ship's name, the search may prove impossible! (Unless you can recognise the DCLI regiment on board?) Jane
Royal Artillery . Name and Corps .Line 18 . The last 4 letters are Devon and Cornwall Light Infantry. I can't read the rest.
The 1911 census has Charles Smith born Landrake and that fits with the information he gave on the service record. I wonder how many Charles Smiths were born in Landrake. He was misbehaving in Singapore up to December 1890 and February 1891. May 1891 has him at Fort Grange.Gosport misbehaving again. Absent from tattoo in May and 21 June .
Court Marshall sheet .Court of enquiry Fort Grange,Gosport. 27 August 1891. Charles was illegally absent since the 6 August 1891.
I should have said it was the Duke of Cornwall Light Infantry not Devon and Cornwall. The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry (DCLI) was a light infantry regiment of the British Army in existence from 1881 to 1959.
Hello everyone, I have joined a bit late but i'm researching on my dad, Brendan's account and came across this discussion. Orlando is my paternal 2nd great grandfather (We believe his full birth name was either Charles Orlando Ronald Venner or Charles Orlando Venner later Smith) through my great grandmother Winifred (Born in 1911). He was born on the 25th August 1866 in Lezant, Launceston, Cornwall to William Venner Jr and Emma Jane Venner nee. Steed. He was baptised on 28 December 1870. Sadly, he died on 1st September 1914 in Brighton aged 48. He had 3 sisters, Selina, Leah and Georgina and three brothers, William, Albert and Sidney . Me and my family believe that he fled the military, changed his name from 'Venner' to 'Smith' and moved to Brighton to escape execution from being a deserter to become a labourer where he met my 2x great grandmother, Eliza Mary Trigwell (Born 1874) (I'll attach an image). They had a son called Charles Henry Smith in 1893 followed by 4 daughters and supposedly another son, William Smith who died aged 4 in 1911. Their daughters were called, Annie (Maybe Selina Annie), Dora Gladys, Lily May, Amy Emmaline and lastly Winifred Maude. I never met my great grandmother as she died in 2001, 5 years before I was born. I get the information from my great aunt, Sheridan who's also into geneaology and my grandfather, Michael. If anyone has any questions, please let me know, i'll try to answer them to the best of my ability. I hope this helped!
