Hi all. Im looking at my mothers side of the family. On this side I have a line of Gibbons / Gibbins. My Great Grandmother on this side is a Minnie Gibbons of Birmingham born c1877, I haven't as yet managed to source her baptism. Working on the census records I can see her parents were Joseph and Elizabeth Gibbons. The marriage I believe is to an Elizabeth Thornicroft. This gives me Joseph's father as Edward Gibbons a Brass Founder. I can only find one baptism for a Joseph Gibbins or Gibbons with Edward as a father, in 1853 a private baptism at St Martins. The mother is named as Ann. Edward is noted as a Steel Toy maker. I can find an Edward and Ann Gibbins with a son Joseph in the 1851 census, Edward is this time a Fire Iron Maker his born is approx 1816. I can also find Edward in 1841. He is a Brass Founder living with parents Samuel and Jane. Working from that I can't find a marriage for Edward, but can find an Edwin Gibbins marrying an Ann Simkins in 1843 at St Phillips. (have to search Ann Simkins to view as its mis-translated as Edwin Bibbons). The father is named as Samuel a Brass Lock Founder living at Holloway Head, the same address as the 1841 census. I can find a Baptism for an Edwin in 1816 to a Samuel and Jane but not Edward. I'm inclined to believe these are the same person Edwin is Edward. Would anyone concur ? regards Steve
Quite probably, Steve. It was fairly common for Edwin and Edward to be used for the same child and I have examples in my own family. The occupations seems to be of the same ilk, which adds weight to your findings.
I agree with Jan I have plenty of examples, one Edward seems only to be called Edwin in electoral registers but Edward on all official documentation -- perhaps from this we should consider Edwin a relaxed form of Edward
In my family, I have a number of Edwards and Edwins. It seems my Edwards stay Edward, but the Edwins are often recorded as Edwards. Sandra
I have a Donald/Daniel who finally became Daniel for good after military service. His father was highland Scots - which accounts for similar sounding names recorded for one person. Would a local or regional accent reinforce an Edward/Edwin in this case?
Minnie's father Joseph is born about 1848. I think I have his baptism in 1853 at st Martins so he would be around 5yrs old. There is note next to the entry that says Private. Why would that be? I have I think found 3 sibling's baptisms 2 at St Martins 1844 and 1846 and 1 at St judes 1858 all appear to be in the same year as their birth but none of these have private. Anyone got any ideas ?
Private Baptisms are usually due to poor health of child - not expected to live. Often a an entry "admitted into the Church" is found later if child survives, maybe even another Baptism. Sadly some are followed by death/burial entry. p.s. I have an Edward/Edwin Martin who also switches between names, no Baptism to assist either. but seems to sign Edwin himself.
How would that work in this case ? His 3 siblings appear to be baptised within a month or so of being born yet Joseph's private entry would have been when he was 5. Should I be looking for an entry closer to his birth as well?
Can't hurt, also did the family move home in the time span? It may have been a financial reason, health, or lack of timing -particularly if the clergy was a visiting Vicar or similar. Possibly the Husband was away & wife wouldn't /couldn't apply for Baptism alone. Have you checked Baptism images for dobleups? maybe over the page? I have Families who Baptised only on Private occasions. I wonder if they ignored other children because of their loss, or only Baptised one because of delicate condition. I think Jan would be of help here.
Have you bought any certificates, Steve - or are you working from just census and parish records? Sometimes, the parish records can lead us a merry dance and the person that we are looking for ends up being baptised elsewhere with parents of the same name as the one found - if you see what I mean.... However, it would be wise to search for a birth certificate that is close to the age that Joseph purports to be in the censuses. By the way, I have a several times great grandfather who was baptised twice, 4 years apart and in different churches. The family had moved.
I haven't as yet. Don't like to till I exhaust other means not at £10 a pop. Price of them is stupid, especially as you can only search an index. Its high time the older ones were made available digitally through one of the genealogy sites
Ditto , though 3 1/2 years apart , along with all his siblings The impression I get from this is that the family thought it was a good way of introducing themselves to their new community
There is this Edward in 1841: Edward Gibbins 1841 (Family Search) birth: 1816 Warwickshire residence: 1841 St Thomas, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England .... Name: Edward Gibbons Age: 20 Estimated birth year: abt 1821 Where born: Warwickshire, England John Gibbons 60 'shoe m.? Edward Gibbons 20 ditto. Hanah Gibbons 60 Eliza Gibbons 20 HO107; Piece: 1148; Book: 11; Civil Parish: Aston; County: Warwickshire; Enumeration District: 20; Folio: 6; Page: 4; 1851 Name: Edward Gibbons Age: 34 Estimated birth year: abt 1817 same place HO107; Piece: 2060; Folio: 559; Page: 41 with wife Ann Joseph, Samuel & Thomas. edit, if you google Old Inkleys, you'll find some answers on Rootsweb & several other sites -tis in St. Martins. several trees on Ancestry suggest death year as 1874 if same chap. Job as 2nd forename.
Checked 1851 Edward Job Gibbons is a different Man 1841 Edward Gibbins Age: 25 birth abt 1816 born: Warwickshire, England Civil Parish: St Thomas Birmingham Samuel Gibbins 55 Jane Gibbins 55 Edward Gibbins 25 Joseph Gibbins 20 HO107; Piece: 1147; Book: 6; Civil Parish: St Thomas; County: Warwickshire; Enumeration District: 17; Folio: 33; Page: 10;
What I think so far: Samuel married Jane Right at Edgbaston http:// interactive.ancestry.co.uk/4994/40458_316601-00126/4217389?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dbirminghamparishmarriage%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d34%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dsamuel%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dgibbins%26gsln_x%3dNS_NP_NN%26uidh%3de37&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults Edwin is baptised at St Martin 1816 http:// interactive.ancestry.co.uk/4981/40458_316926-00369/3473250?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dBirminghamParishBaptisms%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dms_db%26gsfn%3dedwin%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dgibbins%26gsln_x%3dNS_NP_NN%26uidh%3de37&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults 1841 Samuel & Jane with Edward? 1816 http:// search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1841&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=samuel&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=gibbins&gsln_x=NS_NP_NN&uidh=e37&pcat=1841UKI&fh=2&h=11034642&recoff=8+9&ml_rpos=3 Edwin's marriage to Ann Simkins in 1843 http:// search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=BirminghamParishMarriage&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=ann&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=simkins&gsln_x=NS_NP_NN&uidh=e37&pcat=34&fh=8&h=52997743&recoff=9+10+34&ml_rpos=9 Samuel's burial at St Martin 1845 http:// search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=BirminghamParishBurial&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=samuel&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=gibbons&gsln_x=NS_NP_NN&uidh=e37&pcat=34&fh=7&h=2022652&recoff=9+10&ml_rpos=8 1851 Edward now married to Ann with Joseph 1849 http:// search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1851&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=edward&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=gibbins&gsln_x=NS_NP_NN&uidh=e37&pcat=1851UKI&fh=41&h=9265556&recoff=8+9&ml_rpos=42 1853 Joseph's baptism at St Martin aged 5? http:// search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=BirminghamParishBaptisms&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=joseph&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=gibbins&gsln_x=NS_NP_NN&uidh=e37&pcat=34&fh=3&h=3113871&recoff=9+10+30+42&ml_rpos=4 Edward's burial St Martin 1859 http:// search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=BirminghamParishBurial&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=edward&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=gibbons&gsln_x=NS_NP_NN&uidh=e37&pcat=34&fh=0&h=3994452&recoff=9+10&ml_rpos=1 Joseph's marriage to Elizabeth Thornicroft 1869 http:// search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=BirminghamParishMarriage&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=joseph&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=gibbons&gsln_x=NS_NP_NN&uidh=e37&pcat=34&fh=5&h=1875238&recoff=10+11+35+62&ml_rpos=6 Hopefully the links will work for those with Ancestry subs. As you see Edward and Edwin appear to be interchangeable in this instance. So is this plausible or am I missing something? (Live links removed as per Forum Rule 6. See here. Doug )
Apologies for forgetting about live links. Further to the above post. I also have a baptism for a Mary Ann Gibbins 1804 and her subsequent marriage in 1822 to Joseph Breeden. This leads to a 1851 census for the pair that will include Samuel's wife, Mary Ann's mother, Jane Gibbins widow. Adding weight to the Burial record for Samuel in 1845. I can pm links, I think, if required. 1851 search for Jane as Joseph Breeden is very mis transcribed lol again sorry about the live links.
