1863 Salford address

Discussion in 'Lancashire' started by Philippa, May 8, 2013.

  1. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Frederick Russell and Fanny Bayliss were married in Manchester Cathedral on 2nd November 1863. The address given for both on the Marriage Certificate was 8 Bloom Street, Salford – which I assume is a boarding house.

    I went to Google Maps and was extremely excited when I found the address, because the buildings are old and could well have been the ones there when Frederick and Fanny were in residence. Then I did a bit of research on the buildings and found that on one side of number 8 is the Gas Office which was built in 1880. On the other side is the Salford Corporation Model Lodging House (number 8 forms part of this building) but it wasn’t built until 1894.

    Is there any way of uncovering exactly what stood at 8 Bloom Street in 1863? If so, can we discover who owned the building, if it was indeed a boarding house as I suspect, and also who else lived there?

    To prove I’m not really greedy, an answer to almost any of the above questions would be quite enough to keep me quiet for a little while!!! :rolleyes:

    Philippa

     
  2. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Hi Phillippa, in 1861 the address was described as 'Eating House' 8, Bloom St, Salford.

    Matthew Haque and his family were in residence. RG09. P2912, F9, Page 14.
     
  3. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Well isn't that strange? I wonder how long Frederick and Fanny were living there before they were married.

    Unless one part of the house was set aside as an eating house and the rest as lodgings, but that sounds just a little complicated, doesn't it?

    You didn't happen to notice if anyone other than family was there in 1861?

    Sorry, just a question that popped into my head while I was thinking.

    Thanks for that, Mealymoo, I appreciate your effort. Puts one great big question mark above this couple now instead of a few little ones. :)

    Philippa
     
  4. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Number 8 had only the Haques. Mother, Father (Eating House Keeper) and two children.
     
  5. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    So that means that "my two" were at the address some time after the census details were taken. I guess it still leaves time for the eating house to change to a lodging house, but it does sound odd, doesn't it?

    By the 1871 census Frederick and Fanny were in Queensland so looking at those records would be a waste of time too. Oh well.

    Thanks for checking that for me!!
     
  6. M&SFHF

    M&SFHF New Member

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    Many that were called eating houses were also beer retailers. 1873 the 8 Bloom street, Salford has a Mr Matthew Blakeley shopkeeper @ 10 Mr Potter French polisher @ 6 Mr Kenworthy Furniture dealer.
    With both bride & groom giving the same address, i would say it was an address of convenience. Meaning that they gave this one address to the priest, so if they lived in different parishes, they would not have had to pay twice to have the banns read in two churches? A common thing to do this back then, like today every penny counts.

    M&SFHF
     
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  7. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Interesting point, M&SFHF, and something I hadn't even thought of. Frederick was born in Manchester and he and Fanny were married in the Cathedral which seems to have been the "family church" for a number of generations. His parents were married there (I think his mother was christened there) and he and his brothers and sister were all christened there.

    The think bits are kicking in now, so I wonder why (if it was an address of convenience) did they not use an address closer to the cathedral in Manchester (the family home was in Bolton). Funny the ideas that spring up isn't it? More than likely with questions we will never be able to answer.

    I do appreciate your interest, many thanks again.

    Philippa
     
  8. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    How old were they? Another advantage of an address of convenience was that the parents weren't likely to hear the banns. Manchester Cathedral was also known as an easy place to marry without too many questions being asked.

    GenUKI has an article entitled The reason for marriages in the cathedral. The dates given don't really fit but old traditions tend to linger. Perhaps a local expert can shed more light on it.
     
  9. M&SFHF

    M&SFHF New Member

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    You say the home address was Bolton, then if they would have put that address. They would have had to have had banns read in that parish, more expense & money maybe they didn't have. Were both of the couple home parish Bolton? Like Peter G said, the cathedral was a fairly easy place to marry. There were also plenty of mixed faith marriages carried out & mass wedding at the cathedral. At times it was like a conveyor belt, wedding after wedding.

    M&SFHF
     
  10. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    On christening records for Frederick and his brothers and sister it says they are from Bolton (which is what I meant by the "family" address). I think Frederick had moved away for work and so I became quite excited when I saw the Salford address shown for both on their marriage certificate. Frederick was 26 and Fanny 19 when they married. Oh yes, from memory earlier census records said that Fanny was born in Ireland but I don't have those notes with me to check occupations. They arrived in Brisbane on board the "Queen of the South" in October 1864, with their daughter who had been born at sea. A couple of months earlier Frederick's younger sister Ellen (my g-grandmother) was married in Ipswich. Whether they had come to Australia to join her or not I have no idea and that's another avenue yet to explore.
     
  11. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    OK, have just discovered I had nothing on Frederick from the 1861 census, but I do have something for Fanny. She was born in Scotland, not Ireland (it was her father who was born in Ireland). In the 1861 census Fanny was living at home (27 Redford St Manchester), aged 16, and was a cotton factory girl. Unfortunately Frederick isn't listed at that address as a lodger - that would have been way too easy and convenient.

    Frederick's "occupation" in Australia was that of labourer, so maybe he worked in the same factory? (Maybe is a wonderful word, isn't it?).

    I've tried searching the 1861 census for Frederick too, but the pages I'm sent to are so faint that even with my one "new" eye I can barely read the entries. In some cases I can't read them at all, so with my under-endowed sense of tenacity at work I just gave up.

    Doesn't actually take us any forrarder, does it, nor does it really give me much more to work with/on. Still, it's a start (I think).
     
  12. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    There is a Frederick RASSELL (FMP transcription, but could be Russell) in Salford in 1861. Born 1838, single, and a Timber (?) Labourer. RG9/2919/15/24.
    It says he was born in Hulme. Could this be your chap?
     
  13. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    How are Hulme and Bolton situated, Jellylegs? Close enough to say "near enough is good enough"? My knowledge of UK geography is really abysmal :oops: so I don't think I could even hazard a guess about the Frederick in this case. I really wish I knew what kind of labourer "my" Frederick was, but I have no idea.

    I think an unfortunate thing is that neither Frederick nor Russell (in combination or not) were uncommon names so diving in to claim him could be a move of desperation rather than a sensible one :D . (I really AM tempted, but will valiantly resist!!)

    Thank you so much for looking, it's really kind of you.

    Philippa
     
  14. RonOne

    RonOne Member

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    Hulme is a district of Manchester (south of the city centre) roughly 12 miles from Bolton.

    Possible birth registration and baptism:

    Births Dec 1837
    Russell Frederick - Chorlton 20 99

    Frederick Russell, Son of William Russell & Ann
    Baptised: 22 Oct 1837 at the Collegiate Church, Manchester, Lancashire
    Abode: Manchester
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: H. Fielding
    Register: Baptisms 1837, Page 798, Entry 6281
    Source: Lancashire OPC

    (The Collegiate Church became Manchester Cathedral circa 1847)
     
  15. RonOne

    RonOne Member

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    Re: Bloom Street, Salford.

    The John Rylands University Library has an good collection of Manchester maps from various years available online.

    http://
    enriqueta.man.ac.uk/luna/servlet/maps2~1~1

    In the search box (top right) enter: 1850 (this is the year)
    Bloom Street, Salford can be seen near the bottom right corner of map #22 - Bloom Street continues onto the top right of map #27
     
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  16. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    What fantastic detail, RonOne: it even shows the pews in the church and the changing cubicles at the swimming baths. I love old maps :)
     
  17. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    This one is definitely my Frederick, Ron, his mother's maiden name was Reddish. One definite in all the vaguery!!

    I'll copy that link now and go have myself a little look-see.

    Thanks for this, it's great.

    Philippa
     
  18. RonOne

    RonOne Member

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    L.P. = Lamp post, even the drains are shown :)

    The 1850 OS maps (60 inch to 1 mile) available on the John Rylands University Library site are the complete set of 49 maps (I've got these on CD).

    There are also maps with the same scale for 1891 available but not a complete set.
     

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