1881 My Lyons have escaped

Discussion in 'British Census' started by Chimp, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    15,899
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Edward Lyons was born in 1821'ish in Ireland.

    1851 Census at 1, Ellis Street, Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwickshire
    HO107, Piece 2052, Folio 43, Page 29

    Edward, 1821, Lamp Manufacturer, Ireland
    Hannah, 1820, Yarpole, Herefordshire

    Hannah must have died as he married Ann Orphin in Birmingham, Warwickshire in 1857.

    upload_2019-8-10_8-32-41.png

    1861 census living at 2, Ellis Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire
    RG09, Piece 2139, Folio 10, Page 16

    Edward, 1821, Lamp Manufacturer, Ireland
    Ann, 1835, Birmingham, Warwickshire
    Ann, 1858, Birmingham, Warwickshire
    Mary a, 1860, Birmingham, Warwickshire

    1862 Business Directory of Birmingham -
    upload_2019-8-10_8-33-26.png

    1871 census living at Lease Lane, Birmingham, Warwickshire
    RG10, Piece 3105, Folio 138, Page 25

    Edward, 1822, Lamp Manufacturer, Ireland
    Ann, 1836, Warwickshire
    Sarah, 1866, Warwickshire
    Theresa Mary Ann, 1869, Warwickshire
    Martha Elizabeth, 1871, Warwickshire

    1881 census ? (can't find them)

    In the 1888 Kelly's Directory of Birmingham he is still a lamp maker at 112 Suffolk street

    1890 Theresa Mary Ann Lyons, 1869 marries Francis Phillips in Birmingham, Warwickshire.

    But where are they in 1881
     
  2. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    7,201
    Likes Received:
    26,075
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    Try Lyones !
    With Sarah and family at 1/2 Suffolk street Birmingham Lamp maker oil and Candle
    Page 13 RG 11 2977/72
     
  3. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    19,265
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Have a look at RG11/2977/72/13

    Snap @Archie's Mum :D

    But is this a third wife???? :eek:
     
  4. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    15,899
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Thank you very much Sue. I tried every combination I could think of, obviously didn't try that one.

    So he's married again for a 3rd time.
     
    Ma-dotcom, Archie's Mum and Bay Horse like this.
  5. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    7,201
    Likes Received:
    26,075
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    There is a death for Ann Lyons March qtr1880 Birmingham age 45 but can’t another marriage with a Sarah after that.
     
    Chimp likes this.
  6. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    15,899
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Thanks Sue. I've just tried searching for a marriage too but have come up empty handed.
     
  7. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    19,265
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Maybe they just didn't bother.... :rolleyes:
     
  8. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    15,899
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Could well be the case Jan :rolleyes:
     
  9. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    15,899
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    There is a possibility ?

    Marriages Sep 1880 - Lichfield - 6b - 538

    CORNS Agnes
    HACKETT Sarah
    LYONN Edward
    LYONS Edward
    POWIS John

    In 1881 John & Agnes Powis are living in Lichfield, Staffordshire
     
  10. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    19,265
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Just composing a reply based on that. Will be back shortly.... :nailbiting:
     
    Chimp likes this.
  11. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    19,265
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Maybe it was the marriage between Edward LYONS and Sarah HACKETT that took place in Lichfield RD in the September quarter of 1880.

    My reasoning for this:

    Lichfield RD covers a place called Brereton in Staffordshire. The 1881 census has a Mary LYONS aged 9 who was born in what looks like Brenton Staffordshire. Close - 're' could be mistakken for an 'n'.

    Why would Edward and his previous wife pop into Staffordshire to have a child when all of the others - and Edward's work - was based in Birmingham?

    There is a birth registration of a Mary Elizabeth HACKETT that took place in Lichfield in the March quarter on 1871 (mmn COCKAYNE), which would tie in with the Mary LYONS in 1881.

    :)
     
    Chimp likes this.
  12. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    19,265
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Yup! Found her in 1871 married to a James HACKETT, who died in Lichfield, September quarter 1878, aged 58.

    1871: RG10/2919/90/22
     
    Chimp and Ma-dotcom like this.
  13. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    15,899
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Thank you Jan, that seems to have sorted it.

    This problem was bad enough to sort out but they get worse in later generations. I can't give the details as the people involved are still living. When my friend asked me to do her dad's family tree little did I know the headache it would give me.
     
  14. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    19,265
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    That was a late marriage - James and Sarah wed in 1866 when James already had children. Sarah would have been about 36, so possibly married before....

    They didn't make it easy, did they? :headbang:
     
  15. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    19,265
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Correction:
    The Mary HACKETT born in 1871 was Mary Josephine in the June quarter not Mary Elizabeth in the March quarter. Mary J's mother's maiden name was HARVEY, which matches the marriage to James HACKETT in 1866.

    Sorry about that... :oops:
     
    Chimp likes this.
  16. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    15,899
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    That's Ok, thank you for the update ;)
     
    Daft Bat likes this.
  17. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    15,899
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    Back at Edward Lyons again!

    Edward married Ann Orphin in 1857, Ann was the daughter of his partner William Orphin (they ran a lamp manufacturing business)

    Ann dies in early 1880 and later that year Edward remarries a widow Sarah Hackett.

    Prior to all this, on the 1851 census Edward has another spouse.

    HO107, Piece 2052, Folio 43, Page 29
    Court, No 1 Ellis Street, Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

    Edward Lyons, Head, Married, 30, 1821, Lamp Manufacturer, Ireland
    Hannah Lyons, Wife, Married, 31, 1820, Yarpole, Herefordshire

    I have found a marriage in 1846 in Birmingham for an Edward Lyons and on the same page is Hannah Beavan.

    RC records for Nechells, Warwickshire - there is a birth in 1852 for a Terence Lyons with the mother's maiden name Bevan, on 8th August 1852 there is a burial for the same Terence and the mothers name is given as Hannah.

    Edward was of Roman Catholic Religion.

    I can't find what happened to Hannah.......anyone?
     
  18. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,728
    Likes Received:
    14,131
    Location:
    Beckenham, Western Australia
    Sorry this is all I could find, it's a female birth.
    LYONS, - BEVAN
    GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 416
     
    Chimp likes this.
  19. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    19,265
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Have you investigated the following?
    Marriage:
    Hannah LYONS to either William WISBEE or Thomas WESTWOOD in the June quarter of 1857, Birmingham, volume 6d, page 49.

    Bigamy on the part of both? "Poor man's divorce" ;)
     
  20. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,622
    Likes Received:
    15,899
    Location:
    Knighton, Powys, Wales
    I did wonder about that marriage. But being RC wouldn't that be a huge sin for them?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice