1st Brick Wall

Discussion in 'Worcestershire' started by Steve, Jul 11, 2014.

  1. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Hi all first post after welcome threads so I thought I'd start with my fathers line. I've had a few difficulties along the way but now don't know where to look or what to try next.
    So far my paternal line looks like this:

    me > father > William George Tipping > John Henry Tipping > Joseph Tipping

    My trail stops at Joseph. He was born in 1849, Upton upon Severn. I thought for a long time to have his parents. William Tippin(g) & Eliza Bullock. I know Eliza is his mother. While trying to trace William's whereabouts and his parents I found out that he was not Joseph's father.

    Joseph has 9 siblings from his eldest half brother Thomas b1834 through to his twin sister Selina who died just a few days old. 7 of the siblings were children of William's. Joseph and his twin b1849 also a sister Elizabeth b1844 only share the same mother, Eliza Bullock. This is all due to the fact that I couldn't find William in the 1851 or 1861 census. Although at first I thought I had, there are 2 William Tipping's from Upton born just a couple years apart !!
    Eventually I have found that 'my' William was tried for highway robbery and murder in 1841. He was cleared of murder but convicted of the highway robbery, this along with previous form gave way to a sentence of transportation for life.

    I have traced his trial in the papers and also his journey to Van Dienmans Land. I believe Tasmania as is now. He was transported in 1842 the same year as Eliza gave birth to twins a John and Mary Ann, these are the last of William's children. Eliza subsequently gave birth to Elizabeth 2 years later and my Joseph with twin sister Selina a further 5 years later. So William cannot be the father of these last three children unfortunately Joseph being one of them. Although William was transported for life he does appear to have returned to Upton where he is found once again with Eliza in the 1871 and 1881 censuses. He eventually dies in 1881.

    So I am stuck as to who Joseph's father is and unsure of how to go about finding out, if there is a way. Or do you think this is the end of the traceable line ?

    Steve
     
  2. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Have you obtained the birth certificate of Joseph, Selina or Elizabeth? Elizabeth seems to have been registered in the June qtr of 1844 in Upton Upon Severn, whilst in the September qtr of 1849 there is the registrations of a Male and Female Tipping in Upton Upon Severn, with the same reference numbers, so, probably the twins. Did Eliza name William as the father on these certificates, or is the father's name left blank?

    Ann
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Hi Ann.
    The registrations are the for twins. I sent for the male and got sent the female lol. I contacted them to let them know of the mistake and got the sent the male free of charge. :) So I have both.

    There's no father on either just mother Eliza Tipping. The same on their baptism's no father just Eliza named. Elizabeth's baptism names William and Eliza ?
    I haven't yet got Elizabeths birth cert as I expect it to have no father, but I will in the next few weeks just to confirm once funds allow.

    Joseph married Mary Ann Williams, Birmingham 1878, on his marriage entry he names William as his father.

    Elizabeth married a John Reynolds, Upton 1868, again on this marriage entry William is named as father

    Steve
     
  4. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Hi Steve - here's an 'off-the-wall' thought --- did the William [transported] have any unmarried brothers?

    I'm not crazy - William upon his return presumably accepted the new additions - so could he have enlisted an unmarried brother to help support Eliza and the children left behind?
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Hi Colin, Through the wonderful world of WWW I have managed to acquire a few records from the Tasmanian Archives. One of which is an Indent record for William when he arrived in Tasmania. Under the entry for 'Remarks' its noted he has a wife Eliza of Severn Stoke and 4 sisters Sarah, Mary, Elizabeth and Ann. There's no mention of brothers. I would therefore presume he had no living brothers at this time

    Steve
     
  6. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    "Fuddle-duddle" - or in other words --- pity!!
     
  7. dizzyme

    dizzyme Well-Known Member

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    Hi Steve,

    Do you know if Eliza was able to support herself and the children or did she claim parish relief? If she claimed parish relief, there maybe a record of it in the Parish Chest Records.

    Karen
     
  8. dizzyme

    dizzyme Well-Known Member

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    In the 1851 census (HO107/2043/489/32) Eliza is listed as 'Widow' and there is no occupation listed for her.

    William is back with Eliza in the 1861 census (RG9/2098/129/52). Tipping transcribed as 'Tippin'.
     
  9. crazycatlady22

    crazycatlady22 Well-Known Member

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    The church records can sometimes be quite revealing as often the priest would write "Natural Born" child of ............[other times not so complimentary]. Also if you could check the bastardy records, she may have asked the Father of the children for financial support.

    I will have a little look around today and see if I can come up with something.
     
  10. crazycatlady22

    crazycatlady22 Well-Known Member

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    Familysearch website hasn't transcribed the Bishops transcripts for Upton Upon Severn nor have they scanned them. You may be able to go to your local LDS temple and see if they have copies on C.D. or microphish. They don't charge anything for you to have a look at the records that they hold at their temple. I have visited a temple in the Blue Mountains, but their records mainly were Australian.
     
  11. crazycatlady22

    crazycatlady22 Well-Known Member

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    I found a website that states that it has the Upton Upon Severn baptism records for 1840>. I downloaded the pages but was unable to open them. They also have the Workhouse records and I was able to open them. No sign of your family. He/she also has the records for Poor relief which I didn't attempt to download because there are way too many. Can I give the website's address - huntleygenerations.jimbo
     
  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I do vaguely remember reading about William Tippen somewhere, maybe on another forum, and the loss of life when his transport, the 'Waterloo' went down off the Cape.
    He is listed as 'Tippen' on his convict conduct record, where it states he suffered a broken leg in the wreck whilst trying to save the life of a child.
    As he was transported for life I can only assume that he received an absolute pardon to enable him to return home. Maybe for his act of bravery!!, but nothing is on his conduct record, unfortunately. Just his conditional pardon in 1854.
     
  13. crazycatlady22

    crazycatlady22 Well-Known Member

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    I found these on the Upton council website. You probably already have the details: burial records
    23 December 1881 William Tipping age 81 abode London Lane
    12 July 1884 William Tipping age 50 abode Davis Walk
    7 Oct 1887 Alice Tipping age 36 abode Bury Field
    24th December 1897 Eliza Tipping age 88 Abode Dunns Lane

    I will go back and see who else might have been living at the above addresses at the same time
     
  14. crazycatlady22

    crazycatlady22 Well-Known Member

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    The website that I mentioned earlier is run by a lady named Sheila Mason but I wasn't able to open some of the files as I don't have the latest version of excel.
     
  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Upton Union Workhouse 1841
    Eliza Tippin age 30 ag. lab
    Eliza Tippin age 4
    George Tippin age 2
    William Tippin age 6
    All born in county
     
  16. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I opened the file for 1840-1845 and found -
    Elizabeth baptised 20th May 1844, parents William and Eliza Tippin of Upton, labourer.
    There are no transcribed baptisms for 1849, so can't see what it says for the twins.

    Ann
     
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  17. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Does anyone think like me, in that these baptisms seem to be all over the place!!!!
    FamilySearch has.
    John and Mary Ann baptised 4/9/1842
    Thomas 18/2/1842 but a Thomas was born (baptised?) in 1834.
    George 14/4/1844 but 2 years old in 1841 in the workhouse
    Elizabeth 26/5/1844
    Eliza 16/4/1837
    Joseph 1/9/1849
    And a William 6 years old in the workhouse but can't find a baptism!
     
  18. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    As we're into the 1840s the old system of individual parishes supporting their paupers would have been scrapped. Instead paupers would be expected to go into the appropriate Union workhouse. There may be clues among Poor Law Union records if they have survived. Even if there's nothing locally there will be correspondence in MH 12 at Kew, which can have really fantastic stuff about individuals, so worth a shot.

    If Joseph's father isn't named on the birth certificate or baptism register, then the best hope of discovering out who he was is probably Petty Sessions records. Sadly many of these have not survived: the county record office should be able to tell you if they have anything covering Upton-on-Severn.

    You may find reports from Petty Sessions in newspapers. Here are some examples of bastardy cases reported in (Lincolnshire) papers from the 1840s:

    http://
    archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ENG-LINCSGEN/2005-07/1121464263

    I know it's the wrong county for you but perhaps it will give some inspiration for the kind of keywords to use in searching online newspapers.
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Wow such a lot of thoughts....... Let me try and add what I have.

    crazycatlady22 & Archie's Mum -

    Baptisms, I have all the childrens baptism records:

    Thomas 1834 Powick
    William 1835 Hanley Castle
    Eliza 1837 Powick
    George 1839 Kempsey
    John & Mary Ann (twins) 1842 Severn Stoke
    Elizabeth 1844 Upton upon Severn
    Joseph & Selina (twins) 1849 Upton upon Severn

    All but Joseph & Selina's name William and Eliza as parents. Elizabeth can't be Williams as Eliza was pregnant with John and Mary Ann at the time of his transportation. These have been very helpfully in pinpointing the right William Tippin(en / g). Placing William at different years in different places

    Dizzyme -

    Census:
    1841:
    Eliza is in the workhouse with the later 3 of her children
    Thomas is living with Eliza's parents Thomas & Elizabeth Bullock
    William I believe is in Bromyard but can't as yet prove its him

    1851
    Eliza is in Upton with some of her children including Joseph
    Thomas is again with grandparents. This census gives you the relationship and so Eliza's maidenname
    William is now in Tasmania probably why Eliza is noted as a Widow.

    1861
    William appears to have returned. He is now with Eliza Elizabeth and Joseph in Upton

    1871
    William & Eliza still in Upton this time with sons John and Joseph

    1881
    William and Eliza in Upton with grandchildren

    1891
    Eliza with a grandchild in Upton


    Deaths: 1881 is transported William, 1884 is his son bap 1835, 1887 I think this is John's wife Alice Lippett but the age doesn't match with what I have so far so unsure and Finally I believe this is Eliza Tipping nee Bullock

    Archie's Mum - You are correct in what you have relayed from other forums possibly roots, where I was looking for info on William's transportation. He did get a conditional pardon in 1853, but was informed that this would mean staying away from England. He did, however, come back so tracing his voyage back may prove very difficult.

    Finally for now, I think, crazycatlady22 can you pm me the website as I can't seem to find anything

    many thx for all your thoughts
    Steve
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Member

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    With six children to support it must have been very difficult. The 1851 census doesn't help me much by way of occupation, but would expect an Ag Labourer or similar in such a rural area. Worcester Archives told me they have no bastardy records for the period and that their holdings of poor law records wouldn't hold details of individuals. But I shall still try n make a trip down there soon to check for myself.
    MH 12 ? Would this mean organizing a trip to Kew. I don't suppose they have anything online do they.
     

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