A few general questions

Discussion in 'Criminal Ancestors' started by Mutters, May 6, 2013.

  1. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    I have found a newspaper article naming an ancestor who committed a crime in 1890 and was sentenced to 2 years penal servitude.

    1. Now where do I look to find the details?
    2. How much information can I obtain on-line or would I have to visit record offices?
    3. What is the Calendar of Prisoners and what does it contain?
    4. How do I find where the sentence was carried out, what prison was he in?
    5. When did they photograph prisoners, does that mean there is a picture?
    6. Would I be able to get a transcript of the trial?
    7. Are there any useful links to get me started?
    8. What other information or advice can you offer please?
    Thank you
     
  2. Guy

    Guy Whose knowledge is boundless

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    A useful start would be
    http://www.
    nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/criminal-trial-or-conviction.htm

    Don't forget to also view their "related guides"

    Other records include the Quarter Sessions, Assizes, Petty Sessions,

    Even when much is online it is always advisable to visit archives as the bulk of their records have not been digitised.

    Calendar of Prisoners lists : prisoner's name, age, occupation, crime, previous convictions, and date arrested. It may also note other details.

    Paranoia about privacy has resulted in this anomaly.
    Most calendars are closed for between 75 to 100 years, except those from 1969 onwards (i.i. the latest ones) which remain closed for 30 years.

    The amount of detail available depends on the part of the country etc.
    Cheers
    Guy
     
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  3. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Have a look at Crime and Punishment by clicking on the Article link in the green bar above. :)
     
  4. TonyV

    TonyV He who cleans up after his ancestors...

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    Hi Mutters

    One of your questions was about photographs. I found the criminal record photograph of a 16 year old ancestor of mine who was born in 1861. Most of the other records of similar date on that website did not have pictures so I'm guessing that taking them for criminal records was fairly unusual in 1877.

    cheers
    Tony
     
  5. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Thanks Tony,
    I did find some photographs on line but just one prison and a few short years.
    Mine was in Pentonville. Seeing as he was a habitual offender, I might just strike lucky one day. Oh wouldn't that be great. :)
     
  6. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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  7. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Thank you. The prisoners list was fascinating, thousands of them and sadly none were mine.
    Many were transferred from Bedford Prison.
    I felt sorry for one, bless her, Sarah Salt - she received 14 days hard labour for stealing a post from a dead fence. :(
     
  8. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Sorry it wasn't a help for you Lass.
     
  9. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    It is certainly worth saving. They hope to add other years so I might get lucky but either way it is a fantastic resource. Well laid out and easy to follow. :)
     
  10. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting site. Thanks Wendy!
    Poor James Haines spent 2 calendar months of hard labour for stealing soot. Did soot mean something different then than it does now? He was also charged with stealing a clasp knife, but was acquitted of that charge.

    Check out the Quick Searches.. at the bottom of the page you can clikc on different choices...I clicked on Bastardy... it gave a complete description of the chap , William Arnold, whose name I clicked on just to see what it was like. Height, hair colour where born, etc.
     
  11. TonyV

    TonyV He who cleans up after his ancestors...

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    It was that site I found my relative on a couple of years ago and I was lucky that his picture is there. Working with an 'online' cousin we also found records of him later in a workhouse (probably because of his epilepsy) and lastly in an asylum. His medical records were available and he was both the giver and receiver of much violence both to and by inmates and asylum staff. His picture in the asylum was also available to compare with his 16 year old mugshot from Huntingdon Jail. A very sad life but pictures make it more personal don't they?
     
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  12. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    If you do an 'all these words' search in the National Archives' catalogue for Pentonville photographs, it comes up with the following references to photograph albums of prisoners in Pentonville Prison:

    PCOM 2/98 - 1875-1876
    PCOM 2/99 - 1876-1878
    PCOM 2/100 - 1877-1882
    PCOM 2/101 - 1882-1885
    PCOM 2/102 - 1880-1885
    PCOM 2/103 - 1879-1883
    PCOM 2/104 - 1882-1885

    All a bit early for you, I'm afraid, unless your chap had been in Pentonville before.

    Next time I go up to Kew I can have a look at them to see if they have name indexes.

    (They also have some photographs of the interior of Pentonville Prison from 1895, e.g. one of 'prisoners in infirmary', ref. COPY 1/420/179.)
     
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  13. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Thank you Huncamunca.
    I will go and take a look as I know he had several visits there but I think the first (that I have found) was in 1888. His two brothers also enjoyed the hospitality of various prisons at different times so it gets confusing.

    I'll really have to sort out my filing system. ;)
     
  14. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    You actually have a filing system? Shame on you.

    Colin
     
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  15. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Oh yes, I've a metal filing cabinet with drawers. It is really easy to file things, I open the drawer, chuck it in and shut the drawer.
    It's the retrievable bit I've yet to sort. ;)
     
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  16. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Mine is not quite up to your standards, Mutters - but I'm getting there, slowly but surely. Gimme time!!!

    Colin
     
  17. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I just wish I could let go of all my (very old) bits of paper which fill my metal filing cabinet. Every so often I start going through them in the hope I may find the 'missing link' and determined to throw a lot away, but........you can guess the rest. I get side-tracked and then the whole lot go back in said filing cabinet till the next time! :oops:

    Ann
     
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  18. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Our remaining printer is having the vapours at the moment, not sure if it's the sun coming in the window affecting inks or just pure old age orneryness. No printing taking place lately, all on sticks/flash drives. I guess I might chuck them in a drawer but it's easier to hang'em up.
     
  19. Eve

    Eve Well-Known Member

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    I'm loving the Pentonville site - thanks Wendy
    No sign of a couple of my most likely rogues! But looks like I shall
    Be spending a lot of browsing time there !
     
  20. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    A tad off subject, but does Huntingdon jail have a site to view? I have a gr.gr.gr. grandfather who died in there. Thanks.
     

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