A few handwriting queries

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by Oz Faremeister, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    Hi all, I am trying to decipher what appears to be a 99 year, multi-life lease agreement in the Fylde area of Lancashire and though I have deciphered most of it, there are a few bits of handwriting that I can't make out.
    upload_2020-8-13_19-9-59.png
    Looks like shearing and ?one "illegible" and an Harriott

    I've no idea what this bit is other than it looks like a geographic location
    upload_2020-8-13_19-12-1.png
    as it is immediately followed by eighteen acres leased
    upload_2020-8-13_19-13-37.png
    by "illegible" Thomas Clifton
    upload_2020-8-13_19-15-20.png
    six pence three days shearing and ?one illegible
    upload_2020-8-13_19-16-51.png
    and illegible by illegible six acres leased (again this may be a geographic location)
    upload_2020-8-13_19-18-42.png
    one illegible and an harriott in possession of
    upload_2020-8-13_19-20-8.png
    illegible and ?Tenant by illegible thirty four acres leased (again looks like a geographic location)
    upload_2020-8-13_19-22-7.png
    twenty loads of ?turf illegible four loads of ?turf
    upload_2020-8-13_19-24-4.png
    two days shearing four illegible the keeping of a Dog illegible ?year, which is then followed by "and an harriott in possession of William ffair Margaret Rainford and Grant Tompson

    Any thoughts would be appreciated. The original record is on findmypast, the national archives, FEC 1/1183 Forfeited Estates Commission: abstracts of estates of Popish recusants
     
  2. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    The same William ffair above also seems to match a list of leases of an estate owned by Thomas Clifton in 1717 in Westby with Plumpton which reads
    upload_2020-8-13_19-38-22.png
    A illegible and Tenant for one life william ffair 1 pound 14 shillings 7 pence 122 pounds
     
  3. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    I think one of the illegible words is by estimation, but spelled with a c not a t.
    And in the second snip it is preceded by one message and tenement.
     
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  4. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

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    “Messuage” (Dwelling place) seems to occur quite often.
     
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  5. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Messuage = a dwelling house with outbuildings. The phrase in common usage is "messuage and tenement" - but I'm not clear on what that means legally.
     
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  6. Barley

    Barley Active Member

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    It's "messuage and tenement" - an old description of a house and land.
    The Thomas Clifton is "Sir" Thomas, I think.
    There's a "hen" and "henns" in there. The conditions of the lease aren't just money, but provisions and services. The tenant has to provide one or more chickens for the landlord's table.
    Keeping a dog I assume is the landlord's dog, to save him feeding and housing it himself. This might be a pack of hunting dogs, distributed singly amongst the tenants.
    Not sure what comes after the loads of turf, sorry.
     
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  7. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    Very good suggestions so far. Thought it might be hen or hens but wasn't sure.
     
  8. Barley

    Barley Active Member

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    If this estate was forfeited after 1717 it should be listed in The Registers of Estates of Lancashire Papists 1717-1788. (Almost all are 1717, and I assume it would have been listed before it was forfeited.) They are in the printed volumes of the Lancashire and Cheshire Record Society.
    Part 1 LCRS vol 98 (1945). Contains Rolls I, II and part of III
    Part 2 LCRS vol 108 (1960). Contains the rest of Roll III and all of Roll IV
    Part 3 LCRS vol 117 (1977) . Contains Rolls V and VI
    I searched these for all the names of my Lancashire Catholic ancestors, and they are printed transcriptions and they are indexed by surname. Oh joy!

    An example of an entry is
    Vol 98 p22 HILARY ASHTON OF OUTRAWCLIFFE, yeoman
    A mess and ten 28½ ac with a saltcoat and a sandfloor, in Out Rawcliffe. Let for lives of John, Bridget and Elizabeth his children by Henry Butler esq. At 21s rent and 2 days ploughing, 2 days harrowing, 2 days leading or worthing or dung with a driver and filler, 1 day weeding in the garden, getting 4 wiskets-ful of bent, 2 days shearing, 1½ quarters of farm salt, clipping and washing of sheep as needful, 4 hens and a cock, 20 eggs, 6 chickens, delving and dressing 40 loads of turves, leading of stone 1 day and keeping a dog.

    The books are on the open shelves at Lancashire Archives. It isn't open at the moment, but is responding to queries by e-mail. I suggests you drop them a line mentioning the name of the tenant, and they should be able to find it easily.
     
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  9. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    As most of my ancestors were farmers, that's a great suggestion that I will follow up, thanks
     
  10. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    Yes, estimation makes sense. It's marvelous how other eyes can pick up what should have been obvious!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  11. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    What does the word harriott mean in the context of these two phrases I am trying to decipher "the yearly rent of six shillings two days shearing and one hen and an Harriot " or "'two days shearing four hens the keeping of a Dog illegible ?year and an harriott in ?possession of William ffair Margaret Rainford and ?Grant Tompson""

    A harriott can be defined as a female meaning of estate ruler, but that doesn't seem to make sense. Is there some other meaning (such as a female servant of the estate) or am I missing something?
     
  12. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    Another difficult bit of handwriting is
    upload_2020-8-14_11-28-35.png
    for ninety nine years illegible
    Any thoughts?
     
  13. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    I think one bit says the keeping of a Dog every year
     
  14. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    I
    That's a very particular set of conditions! I'm glad rental agreements these days mostly stop at money per week and keep the place in good nick!
     
  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    A Harrier is a type of hunting dog for flushing out hares, maybe Harriot means the same. Maybe a girl Harrier......:sceptical:
    I initially thought it to be a rooster for the hen. One chook a year wont go far.
    As Harriot seems t follow hen or henns (hen and harriot) then maybe is it the rooster but I have a very old dictionary and the word isnt in that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  16. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    There is also the 'hen harrier' a raptor used for flushing out grouse....just a thought.
     
  17. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    Interesting, makes sense either way as a bird to me
     
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  18. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    and this.....
    HERIOT. 'a feudal service or tribute originally of borrowed military equipment and later a chattel due to the landlord on the death of a tenant, usually an animal'
    So as I cant see all the will, just bits of it perhaps it means that William ffair, Margaret Romford and Grant Thomson, each year had to give Sir Thomas Clifton a hen and if one of them died during the tenancy then they were to forfeit another animal, named in the will as 'the Harriot'. (Heriot)
     
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  19. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Active Member

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    That sounds likely Sue. The full transcription using all of your Top Dog suggestions seems to be:

    One messuage and tenement by estimation thirty four acres leased by Sir Thomas Clifton for one hundred and twenty two pounds to John ffair for three lives one of which is yet in being under the yearly rent of thirty four shillings and seven pence twenty loads of ?turf ?asking four loads of turf leading two days shearing ?four hens the keeping of a Dog ?every year and an harriott in ?possession of William ffair Margaret Rainford and ?Grant Tompson"

    Thanks for all your help with this
     
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  20. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    ... for ninety nine years Determinable upon
     
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