A John Birch problem

Discussion in 'British Census' started by annabel, Aug 21, 2021.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    In my attempt to identify the John and Ann Birch who are my ancestors I thought they were the John Birch and Ann Turney who married in 1812 in Kings Langley, Herts. I know nothing else of John so I have been trying to follow Ann Turney, who I know was baptised 1792 in Kings Langley

    Neither ever appear in the census with their children, that I have found, who were Henry 1814, Sarah 1818, Benjamin 1818, Joseph 1821, Rueben 1823, all born Aldenham. Henry is my ancestor

    There is, however an Ann Birch (Birchi) born 1791 Langley, Herefordshire with grandchildren Charlotte 1839 Ruislip and Rebecca 1849 Ruislip. RG 9; Piece: 39; Folio: 122; Page: 5 All living in Chelsea
    Further investigation reveals the grandchilden's parents were John Birch and Hannah Townsend

    This John says he was born in 1818 in Ruislip in 1861, but I can't find this birth, the only one that comes up is born in Rickmansworth, parents John and Ann. Trees attribute this to be John Birch and Ann Turney

    So my question, if you can follow the above, is which John and Ann were the parents of Henry etc, have I got it wrong?. I have a suspicion that John sr might have been born around Chartridge, Chesham, Bucks through DNA. Thanks very much
     
  2. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Have you seen the marriage of John Burch to Ann Wilkinson in Aldenham?

    8/11/1809 both of the parish of Aldenham, bachelor and spinster

    I wouldn't worry about a birth reg in Rickmansworth and a pob being Ruisip, there are next to each other. Ruislip covers a large area (my pob) and has lots of parishes, some close to Hertfordshire.
     
  3. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    That does look promising. But there would be 5 years before the first child Henry, Of course there could be as some infant deaths. I'll have to look at that one properly when I get home later.

    I know this corner of Herts well it's right on the border with loads of places which makes it tricky. The problem with John Jr in Rickmansworth is that he would be slap bang in the middle of all the Aldenham births, and other trees have different siblings born in Rickmansworth for him
     
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  4. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    There is a James Burch bap 1810 in Aldenham, there is image on FMP but transcribed as Barch.
    I notice Reuben and Joseph are also baptised as Burch
    Also. there are Phyllis in bap 1827 and a William bap 1828 also Burch with an abode as High Cross the same as your family

    Edit:- Phyllis died at 3 weeks and was buried 25/11/1827
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
  5. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Not that this helps with your original query, but there is a baptism at Aldenham on 19 November 1827 for a Phyllis daughter of John & Ann BURCH of High Cross, she being buried at Aldenham on 25 November 1827, aged 3 weeks. There is another baptism at Aldenham on 10 February 1828 which could be relevant, it being of a William son of John & Ann BURCH, Workhouse. There is a burial at Aldenham on 2 October 1822 for a Joseph BURCH, aged 14 months, who could be the Joseph you mention above.

    There is a burial at Aldenham on 24 July 1865 for a John BIRCH of Watford Union, aged 86, and this ties in with an 1861 census record for a John BIRCH resident at the Watford Union Workhouse, married, aged 83, Ploughman, born Abbots Langley. But can I find any trace of John & Ann with any certainty in earlier census records, can I heck. Son Benjamin looks to have married a Susan FIELD on 4 September 1843 at Little Stanmore, Middlesex. Son Reuben may well have been killed whilst working for the South Eastern Railway in an accident and was buried at Oxted, Surrey on 21 March 1841.

    What could be interesting is an 1841 census record for a John & Ann BIRCH living in Watford with children Ann aged 11 & John aged 5 (HO107/439/8, folio 20, page 33). Looking up the baptism for Ann in Watford shows her baptism on 2 October 1831, father John being shown as a Labourer but there is another baptism on the same day to the same parents for a daughter Phyllis - is this a coincidence or could they be the same John & Ann from Aldenham?? Phyllis was buried at Watford on 20 August 1836.

    Have to go out now, but will see if I can find out any more later.

    Janet
     
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  6. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    This could be a complete red herring, but given your DNA match regarding Chesham, there is an Ann BIRCH, widow, aged 67, Charwoman, born Chesham, Bucks, living at Water Lane, Watford in the 1861 census. She could be the Ann I found in the 1841 census of Watford with husband John, her age being shown as 48 in the 1841. This Ann is shown as a widowed Servant in the 1851 census of Watford (HO107/1714, folio 222, page 23) living on High Street. However, I cannot find a likely burial for husband John between 1841 & 1851 but I have found a John BIRCH, married, aged 72, Seller of Watercress, born Alenham, Essex, in the 1851 census of St Luke, Finsbury, living at 3 Wellesley Street with son John aged 14, born Watford HO107/1521, folio 21, page 34. But, as I say, pure speculation without any other corroborative evidence.

    Janet
     
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  7. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Good spot, if that is their child that helps fill the gap after John and Ann's marriage
    Also a good spot, I'm ashamed to say i hadn't noticed High Cross. Google says it's a road between Aldenham and Radlett so that makes it likely the Birches and Burches are the same family. Thanks very much
     
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  8. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    The only thing about this is that it's only 3 months after Phyllis was born. Of course he could have been born before her and is a late baptism, but I'm not sure

    This took me ages to find. On Ancestry as Binch. I like them living in St Luke as Henry, who if this is correct would be their son, also went to live at St Luke in 1851, although being a few meters over the border it's called Shoreditch. I do notice that if correct that would make Ann 16 when she married and 43 when she had John :eek:
    Also in 1861 Ann is living with Henry Lovell. I've seen that surname before somewhere
     
  9. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Not sure I am getting too much further on with your BIRCH/BURCH family - they seem to be conspicuous by their absences in census records! Not that some of the transcriptions of their surname helps too much, does it. So James BURCH baptised in 1810 presumably must have been the son of John BURCH & Ann WILKINSON who married in 1809. There is a birth (4 January 1792) and baptism (29 January 1792) at Aldenham for Ann daughter of Jno & Ann WILKINSON who sounds a likely candidate. She would definitely tie in agewise with the Ann wife of John BIRCH (aged 48) in the 1841 census of Watford and also the fact that this Ann was born in Hertfordshire according to said census. So did they decamp to London sometime after the 1841?? And if so where was Ann in the 1851/61 census records?

    Ah, I wonder if this could be Ann nee WILKINSON in the 1871 census of Kensal New Town, Chelsea (RG10/91, folio 72, page 15). The Enumerator has entered her place of birth as Herefordshire but I have found quite a few instances in the past where they get Herefordshire and Hertfordshire mixed up! She is living by herself at East Row and described as a 79 year old widow - Ancestry has transcribed her as BRICH. See what you think.

    Janet
     
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  10. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I just thought, would there be watercress grown in London city? Watford has a lot of historic watercress beds. Perhaps the 1851 census was taken at the moment John had come try his luck selling the watercress at the market. Googleing Old Yard, where they lived in 1841, reveals it was a slum with an open cesspool in the street. in 1849 they were recovering from a cholera outbreak there. This might explain why we can't find many of the family.
     
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  11. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hmm, I have a memory of reading that it was grown in Southfields (before that became developed) but can't find confirmation of this online.

    I have found that most of the watercress came from Hampshire by train. But I would expect some small amount was London grown
     
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  12. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Having had a rootle about I think that it is likely that this family is indeed my family. I have found that Old Yard, under a new name, is still there and is only around the corner from the Bushey address of the family that Henry married into, so probably how they met. It's spookily close to where my daughter lives too.

    Thanks to everyone for finding them
     

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