Age at imprisonment

Discussion in 'Criminal Ancestors' started by annabel, Jul 16, 2022.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I have found a newspaper report of John Welton "misbehaving" within Hoxne workhouse, Suffolk, and being sentenced to 17 days hard labour at the county gaol and house of correction. This is in 1844.

    In 1841 the only John Welton at the workhouse was born in 1835. His father was John Welton, born i think in 1792, who I can't find in 1841 or indeed any other time after this.

    Is it possible that a 9 year old boy could have been sentenced to hard labour?
     
  2. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Back then you a minor could get the death penalty for stealing an handkerchief, whereas a well to do person could get away with running someone over and killing them, so anything is possible. I see he is still in the workhouse, aged 15 in 1851.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2022
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  3. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Drat! I was hoping I'd found something on John Sr, nothing after 1835. I thought misbehaving sounded like a child, but hard labour for one so young :(. There are no workhouse records - my Weltons, especially these 2, barely troubled the record keepers and census takers
     
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  4. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    How sure are you that this young John was your John?

    Have you seen this family in 1841

    Dunwich Lane, Haveningham, Blything, Suffolk
    HO107
    Piece number 1015
    Book number 17
    Folio number 7
    Page number 9
     
  5. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Interesting, thank you. However, John jr was with his siblings in 1841, so I think this is a different family.
     
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  6. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Oh yes so they are, all 4 of them in the workhouse.
     
  7. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I think I found the death of their mother in 1837 in Hoxne aged 37 but the only death I can find for a John prior to the children going in the workhouse is John aged 85, he died in 1838 in Hoxne, this would give a birth of 1753 at that rate he would have been 47 years older than his wife. Not an impossibility.

    But who's to say he had died, maybe he couldn't look after the children after the death of his wife and so entered them into the workhouse.
     
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  8. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    That's what I'm thinking. What's odd is that I think he had brothers Charles born 1796, and Robert 1799, and Martha 1802 (who may have died a spinster in 1867, I'm not sure), who also vanish on any other record. Perhaps they all went somewhere together
     
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  9. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    Suffolk Archives have the Ipswich Gaol Books, which show the following:

    22 Feb 1844 John Welton of Stradbroke Union and James Moss of Stradbroke Union
    3 Jun 1853 Edward Everton of Stradbroke Union House and John Welton of Stradbroke Union House

    Possibly his brother?
    18 Jun 1845 Charles Welton of Hoxne and John Garrod of Plomesgate Union

    According to the description of the collection, there should be a lot of background information within these records, including age, description and fathers name, trade & residence.
     
  10. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    The NBI has this 1838 burial as Laxfield, and there is another burial at Laxfield on 30 Apr 1837 - John Welton aged 45.
     
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  11. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Oh you are kidding I've just been there! You have to book everything at least a week in advance before you can see it. I never saw that.

    Thank you very much. I found that place so hard to work in, and I even asked them in person. They aren't available to copy, so that will have to be a
    trip for the future :(
     
  12. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Hmm. The one at Laxfield for Mary has her born 1757 so I'm not sure, the Hoxne one is better on age. However the John Welton death is spot on for age. So I don't know...
     
  13. Andromeda

    Andromeda Well-Known Member

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    The NBI has a burial at Hoxne on 6 Aug 1837 - Mary Welton aged 39

    ADDED: I wonder if the whole family went into the workhouse after John's death, which might explain Mary's burial there rather than Laxfield?
     
  14. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    That's a new thought. Unfortunately the Gro certificate was very sparse for Mary, that could indicate the workhouse perhaps. It gave no address, witness was a nurse, died of thyphus. Wife of labourer. The nurse could have been one from the workhouse infirmary
     

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