Agnes Richardson mystery - who was she?

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by erica, Feb 9, 2014.

  1. erica

    erica New Member

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    I have been looking at the family of my Grandad's grandmother Jane Richardson (1823), married to Edwin Crann (1821). His sister Isabella Crann (1828) was married to Jane's brother John Richardson (1827) who was a Professor of Music.

    I then came across Agnes Richardson, born about 1848 who seems a bit of a mystery as she was born in Middlesex and the rest of the family all lived in Leeds.

    On the 1851 census (Leeds) Agnes aged 3yrs is living with John and Jane Richardson,their brother William (1830) and their parents John(1796) and Sarah Richardson as "granddaughter". Born in Middlesex, her father is cited as William Richardson.

    There was another sister - Elizabeth Richardson (1824) who married William Gamble in 1861. On the 1861 census (Leeds) Agnes has moved in with them, cited as Agnes Gamble, daughter, still from Middlesex.

    On the 1871 census (Leeds) Agnes Gamble (Middlesex) and a brother, Thomas (Leeds) were living with Elizabeth Gamble - widow.

    In 1872 Agnes reverted to Richardson and married George Edward Simpson (1850). On the marriage records her father is cited as John Crann - Professor of Music.!

    The only birth of an Agnes I can find in Middlesex is for Agnes Patey Richardson born 1848. The mother was Elizabeth and the father is cited as Charles Augustus Richardson who was - a Professor of Music! I presume the mother was Elizabeth Patey. There were a few in London at that time.

    The only Charles Augustus Richardson I can find was born in1817 in Westminster (Middlesex) and died the next year!

    My imagination is running riot! Did John Richardson go to London under a false name, have an illigitimate child, and then take it home to Leeds? He married Isabella in1857 and they didn't have any children as far as I can tell.

    Can anyone shed any light on this muddle?

    Thanks for looking.

    Erica.
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Sorry, but I have a couple of questions.... :( But have added the census references for others to take a peek as well. :)
    The census (HO107, piece 2320, folio 1086, page 16) just states that she is the grandaughter of John, the head of the family. How did you know that her father is William?

    Recorded as GAMBLES - Just for information: RG09, piece 3383, folio 95, page 26 ;)

    Again recorded as GAMBLES: RG10, piece 4552, folio 152, page 3

    But could this in fact be John RICHARDSON, who was recorded as a Professor of Music in the 1851 census above?

    Only the birth certificate will confirm this – never presume! :D
     
  3. erica

    erica New Member

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  4. erica

    erica New Member

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    Hi,
    Sorry, I meant John Richardson - my family is Crann and I just typed the wrong name. My mistake! I can find no birth record for Agnes Richardson with father John Richardson - only the Charles Augustus Richardson mentioned above.

    The status "granddaughter" is written on the census under relationship to head and William is cited as father in the transcription of the census but that could have just been assumed!

    I think Gamble/s are the same family - just as my family are sometimes Cran and sometime Crann.

    I couldn't find an obvious birth for Elizabeth Patey but mothers surnames are often added as a second name to children so I wondered if this was the case with Agnes.

    What I really want to know is who is the father?!! When John Richardson married Isabella Crann he was a bachelor. If Agnes was his daughter why didn't she live with him? Was John Richardson and Charles Augustus the same person? There must be something I am missing!

    Erica
     
  5. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    My imagination working too.
    Probably just random coincidence of names - googling I found a Charles Augustus Patey , violinist at a Royal Academy of Music concert in London in 1839 . Also there is an 1839 marriage in Westminster for a Charles Augustus Pacey. An Elizabeth Nursey on the same page(among several other ladies however).

    I suppose I am wondering if your John Richardson had an affair with Charles Pacey's wife. Theory only works if Charles's wife was an Elizabeth though!
     
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  6. erica

    erica New Member

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    I think you could be right!
    I have found another child born in 1840 (Ellen Mary Ann Patey) in London to Charles Augustus (Professor of Music) and Elizabeth Patey.
    On the birth record for Agnes it states:- Name: Agnes Patey. Parent's Christian name: Charles Augustus and Elizabeth. Parent's surname: Richardson. The occupation - Professor of Music - would be relevant to John or Charles!
    Seems John might have have an affair and poor Agnes was eventually sent to live with an Aunt!
    We could be wrong but this sounds good to me!
    Thank you,
    Erica.
     
  7. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Now following on from Grizel's great find of a Charles Augustus Patey, I see that there's a Charles A. Hatey on the 1851 census in part of no. 30 Gerrard(?) P., Soho (HO 107/1510, f.530, p.16). Someone has added the alternative surname Patey for him. He was 40, born Plymouth, and a 'Professor of Music (Violin)'. He had a wife Mary and 1 year old daughter.

    So I wonder if he was Agnes' father, and Elizabeth Richardson her mother? Perhaps the names were accidentally or deliberately mixed up when Agnes was baptised. As Daft Bat has already suggested, Agnes' birth certificate should tell you her mother's name, though in the father's details may be omitted.

    When Agnes came to marry, she may have done what a lot of illegitimate children did: made up a name for a father, or used the name of their mother's father.

    P.S. sorry Erica, I'm typing so slowly on this borrowed iPad that I missed your last post.
     
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  8. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    I also find it quite probable that a daughter (ie Elizabeth Richardson) would bring home an illegitimate child rather than a son(John R).

    There is a death in 1840 of an Elizabeth Patey in St Pancras - possibly CAP's first wife? If so she could not then have had an affair with John in 1847.So that death would be something to check I think.

    Also a marriage in 1848 of a Charles Augustus Patey to a Mary. Though may be a different CAP. So possible that CAP was a widower in 1847 when Agnes was born.

    Will have another think tomorrow!
     
  9. erica

    erica New Member

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    Just to add to the confusion:

    I can't find Elizabeth Richardson with the family on the 1841 or 1851 census lists!

    She married William Gamble in 1861 which is when Agnes went to live with her but Agnes lived with her grandparents and "uncles?" John and William in 1851 - no sign of Elizabeth!

    I have found an Elizabeth Richardson working as a servant in Yorkshire on the 1841 census which could be her.

    I wonder if she was introduced to Charles Augustus by her brother, John, as they were both musicians, and she was the mother of Agnes but this does not explain where she was in 1851.

    Also, a Thomas Richardson (1857) appears with the Gambles on the 1881 census as brother to Agnes and I have no idea where he fits in! Can't find any records.

    it looks like CAP was married to an Elizabeth and then to Mary, having children by both, but he could have had Agnes between the two!

    I am having sleepless nights over this!
     
  10. erica

    erica New Member

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    I have just found Elizabeth Richardson from Leeds, about the right age, on the 1851 census working as a housemaid in Hanover Square, London - by coincidence that is where the concert rooms were where Charles Augustus performed! (found on Wikipedia)
    Maybe her parents took the baby back to Leeds and she stayed in london?
     
  11. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Just a couple of bits to throw in the pot regarding CAP

    Elizabeth Patey 21 June 1869 Effects under £200
    Letters of Administration of the Personal estate and effects of Elizabeth Patey (Wife of Charles Augustus Patey) late of 11 St James’s-place Somers Town in the Parish of St Pancras in the County of Middlesex deceased who died 6 May 1840 at 11 St James’s-place aforesaid were granted at the Principal Registry to Henry Patey of 6, Westbury-terrace in the Borough of Plymouth in the County of Devon Commercial Traveller the Administrator of the Personal estate and effects of the said Charles Augustus Patey he the said Henry Patey having been first sworn.


    Charles Augustus Patey 9 March 1868 Effects under £200
    Letters of Administration of the Personal estate and effects of Charles Augustus Patey late of Margate in the County of Kent Musician a Widower deceased who died 8 October 1853 at Margate aforesaid were granted at the Principal Registry to Henry Patey of 5 Union-terrace Plymouth in the County of Devon Commercial Traveller the Brother and one of the next of Kin of the said Deceased he having been first sworn.


    Exeter and Plymouth Gazette 22nd October 1853
    Death of Mr Patey the Violinist - Mr Charles Augustus Patey, late leader of the Royal Academy of Music, and well-known in the musical world, died at Margate, the 8th instant, after a long illness. He was (says a correspondent) an ornament to his profession, and one of whom his native county (Devonshire) might well be proud to number among the many musicians celebrity indigenous to her borders.

    Ann
     
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  12. erica

    erica New Member

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    Thanks Ann,

    I had found the probate for Charles Augustus but the rest is very interesting.

    I don't think there is any doubt that he was the father of Agnes and I think her mother must have been Elizabeth Richardson. - What a tangled web!
    She seems to have later had another illigitimate child - Thomas - before she eventually got married to William Gambles!

    Erica.
     

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