Another brick wall - Waget

Discussion in 'Gloucestershire' started by thalauafu, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. thalauafu

    thalauafu R.I.P.

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    My 4 x gr grandparents were Isaac Evans and Hannah Waget. They married at St. James, Bristol on 22nd September 1799.

    I know that my Evans family originated in Wales, and believe that Isaac was the Isaac Evans born in Llandenny, Monmouthshire in 1765 (date estimated from age stated on death certificate), although this is not proven to date.

    Hannah Waget, however, is a complete mystery to me! The name is relatively uncommon, even using alternative spellings, so it should at least be easy to pinpoint an area where she might have been born, but no such luck.

    Any suggestions would be most gratefully received!
    Diana
     
  2. Lusmum

    Lusmum Well-Known Member

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    I found the marriage on familysearch.org. I couldn't find Hannah's birth. I see the Isaac Evans you think it is ,baptised Jan.20th llandenny Monmouthshire, but there were a lot of Isaac Evans baptised around the same time. From the 1841 census I get Emory John 44 Sarah wife 44 Sarah W 7 dau, Evans Isaac 75 Evans Caroline 75 all down as born Somerset. We know the 1841 census is not 100 per sent correct with ages. If this is your Isaac and I think it is as on the 1851 census Sarah says she was born in Bristol where Isaac and Hannah married. Not sure you can claim the Isaac for certain as too many were given the same name all in Wales. I believe Hannah had died and Caroline is the 2nd wife but can't find Hannah's death. Don't think this will help much sorry.
     
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  3. thalauafu

    thalauafu R.I.P.

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    Greetings Lusmum,

    Many thanks for taking time out to do some searching for me. I have, in fact, already found the entry on the 1841 census that you discovered, but ruled it out as 'my' Isaac Evans because I can find no daughter of Isaac and Hannah by the name of Sarah!

    I have the following children born to the couple, all baptised at St. James, which ties in with their marriage...

    Isaac Evans born 23 Mar 1802, baptised 6 June 1802
    Charlotte Evans born 18 July 1803, baptised 26 Dec 1803
    Jonathan Evans baptised 25 Dec 1805
    Charlotte Evans baptised 28 June 1807
    Mary Evans baptised 8 Feb 1809
    Charles Evans baptised 3 Feb 1811
    Mary Evans baptised 6 June 1813
    Eliza Evans baptised 14 Jan 1816

    I have not found the relevant details, but presume that the first Charlotte died as a baby or toddler, as too her sister Mary. Both names might have been very important to Isaac and Hannah to have named second babies by these names, so I wonder if they were using the traditional naming pattern of their first four children being named after their parents, in which case either could have had a combination of Isaac and Jonathan, Charlotte and Mary!

    Charles was my ggg grandfather and he moved to Southwark in London sometime before 1831 where he married my ggg grandmother Ann Alexis on 5th September that year.

    What I don't know is whether he left home and went to London alone, or if the whole family moved there. I do know that Isaac did go at some time as he died in the Southwark Workhouse in 1848.

    I realise that there are a lot of Isaac Evans, any one of them quite likely to have been 'my' Isaac, and have only assumed that the one born in Llandenny might be mine as a professional researcher who did some paid work for a cousin of mine in England said that it was most likely to have been that one, but why he/she said so, I have no idea, and unfortunately my dear cousin passed away last December, so I cannot quiz her further!

    Again, many thanks for your effort to help me, which is much appreciated.
    Cheers, Diana
     
  4. Lusmum

    Lusmum Well-Known Member

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    You can't always take it that 1st children were named after the Grandparents in England. Later one's often were. Also if a child died they were often given the name to the next one of the same sex. After over 20 years of research I have learned never to take anything for granted. Until you have the proof I never claim anyone. Primary proof are the BMDs secondary proof the Parish Records And the census. Good luck with you research. Val.
     
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  5. thalauafu

    thalauafu R.I.P.

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    Hi Val, Sorry, I seem to have mislead you! I did say that I 'wondered' about the naming pattern, not that I thought it was a fact. I have been researching for 30 years now and I never claim anyone until I have actual proof. Thanks anyway!:)
     
  6. thalauafu

    thalauafu R.I.P.

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    Sorry again! I wrote mislead instead of misled! A lot on today so am in a bit of a hurry! :( Cheers and again, many thanks, Diana
     
  7. Lusmum

    Lusmum Well-Known Member

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    Hi Diana, you did say you 'wondered' I personally have not found it to be a naming pattern in my tree. On my husband's side, he was Scottish that was the general rule to name after the grandparents. The best story I have read was of a woman looking for her x gr grandfather, his 1st name was William, she found 2 marriages for him but couldn't find his 1st wife's death. Then she got his father Will and it named his Estate as going to William the elder AND William the younger. She realized there were 2 Williams, later on she discovered that the father also William had had 6 sons and named all of them William with the hope that at least one would survive to carry on his name. What a mix up in that household if all of them had lived, I wondered if they were given numbers . My grandfathers sister had 17 children and they all lived, I have a picture of them all, that was so unusual that you had to see it to believe it, she was turned 50 when the last one was born. The Post Mistress of the Village where they lived, one day the Excise men were coming round looking far smuggled goods, they didn't disturb the mother feeding her baby little did they know that under her long skirts, she was sitting on a barrel of Brandy. I love the family stories that puts flesh on the bones. Best wishes Val.
     
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  8. thalauafu

    thalauafu R.I.P.

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    Hi again Val,

    You are probably tucked up in bed right now, but as I have accomplished some of my most pressing chores and only have to go out in about half an hour to do the weekly shopping for the family (I live with my son, daughter in law and 19 year old grand-daughter, all of whom are working this morning), so I thought I would drop you another line or two while I am in 'obsession' mode!

    You are so right about putting the flesh on family bones! I have never been one for 'harvesting' names or numbers, but enjoy the stories I have uncovered much more.

    One of my lines....gg grandparents Stephen Parker and Anne his wife, married in 1840 and they named their first four children Ellen, Elizabeth, William and John. Three of these children were definitely named after the couple's parents....Ellen the mother of Anne, William her father, and John the father of Stephen, but Elizabeth is a complete enigma to me! I cannot find a baptism for Stephen even after searching for maybe 20 years, so it could be a naming pattern in their case, with a mother named Elizabeth, but not necessarily so. I do have other families where they definitely do use the naming pattern, but as you say, it wasn't necessarily the case.

    Stephen and Anne's story is one that I uncovered quite by accident! I knew that Anne had died when the four children were still quite young, and I knew that Stephen had remarried a short time later. I 'presumed' that Anne had most likely died in, or because of, childbirth, although there was no baby to prove my theory in later census'. However, she did not in fact die as a result of childbirth, but did indeed have another child, a son named Henry. Both she and Henry died as a result of being severely burned when a log from the fire they were in front of fell out on to the hearth and set alight Anne's dress and the crib that baby Henry (then 7 months) lay asleep in. Stephen was lying asleep on a nearby settee, having come home from work feeling very ill. He himself died of 'Potter's Rot' (similar to Asbestosis) only 3 years later, leaving the four surviving children in the care of his second wife who was, according to family legend, the proverbial 'wicked stepmother'! The older two girls left home as soon as they could, and were both found in lodgings with other family members, but I was unable to trace the boys until they were adults.

    Elizabeth (my great grandmother) herself was, either knowingly or unknowingly (I will never know which) embroiled in some skullduggery, as her husband, my gr. grandfather, was married to another woman when he married Elizabeth, so it was a bigamous marriage. They had 14 children and then, when my gr. grandfather must have heard about the death of his first wife, they went to a nearby town and married a second time.;) The only difference to the two marriage certificates was that on the first my gr. grandfather said he was a bachelor, and on the second a widower!! They even had the same witnesses (Elizabeth's brother John and his wife), the second time around! I don't believe that any of their children knew about the bigamy and only my generation today know about it because I was able to unravel the threads and piece it altogether. They are probably all turning in their graves now! The bigamy was only covered up by Grandfather adding the name of John to his baptised name of Benjamin, therefore becoming John Benjamin rather than plain old Benjamin! This was, in itself, quite confusing as he was one of only two children and his brother was named John!!!o_O

    There was a child to the first marriage, a daughter named Rachel, and she was left to live with her grandmother when her parents split up, but after the death of her grandmother she moved from Manchester to Staffordshire, and ended up marrying there, living just around the corner from her father and his family. I often wonder if he paid for her home as bribery to keep her mouth closed about their relationship!:rolleyes: Her children and my grandfathers brood would all have attended the same school, played in the same fields behind their homes and no doubt worshipped at the same Chapel, most likely never knowing that they were all closely related!:eek:

    And so the stories that I have uncovered go on and on and on!:)

    Happy hunting, Diana
     
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  9. Lusmum

    Lusmum Well-Known Member

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    I expect you know that if a child was stillborn or died at birth, they didn't get registered. The baby was put in a coffin of anyone who had died at that time as if it hadn't been born at all. I only found out about 2 children born to my grandparents from the 1911 census when it became law to say how many children you had had and how many had lived. Off the top of my head I can't remember the year that a stillbirth had to be registered, it was sometime early 1900s. I did some research for someone else and found a bigamous marriage. Her grandmother was already married when she " married" her grandfather. It all came out on her death cert. she was Elizabeth Daisy and married as that to a John Bratt, she then married a Stephen Holmwood taking 6 years off her age and putting her name as just Daisy. On the death cert. it had,Daisy Bratt also know as Holmwood wife of John Bratt. Behind curious I looked to see it she had any Bratt children and found that the 4 Holmwood children had been registered as both Bratt and Holmwood. Don't you just love it when you can put it all together. If a word comes up wrongly, it's my iPad, sometimes it puts what it thinks I am going to write lol. Happy hunting Diana, it wasn't until I remembered the excitement about the 1891 census coming out, that I realized how long I had been doing this. Time goes so fast. Best wishes. Val.
     
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  10. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    1st July 1927 :)
     
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  11. Lusmum

    Lusmum Well-Known Member

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    Clever glogs Jan . Thanks for that clogs, blasted IPad changing words again
     
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  12. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    If you have not already done so, Diana, get yourself a copy of the actual entry in the parish register - first to verify that transcribers have deciphered the surname correctly and secondly to see if there is any additional information. You should at least get witnesses' names, which may be helpful.

    The Bristol Record Office should be able to provide a copy for you.

    As for the name WAGET, there is a database here of similiar names, which may give you some idea of the distribution:

    http://www.
    jboyweb.com/waggittgenealogy/
     
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