Can anyone help with a resident of Guilden Sutton, surrey.

Discussion in 'Surrey' started by Demelza, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. Gina Tessaro

    Gina Tessaro New Member

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    Hello Paul, it's wonderful to meet you and discover what you have learned about the family lineage - my mother is thrilled. I've uploaded a couple of photos for you. The first is of Robert Sydney Steele Smith, taken in Toulon, France after the Second World War. At this point he was serving as ship's doctor returning troops from India. He had tried to re-enlist in the navy at the start of the war, but was considered too old at that point for naval service. He enlisted instead in the army, with the rank of captain, and attended to the wounded who were returned to England on hospital ships disembarking from Dieppe. My mother recalls that her father was in Dieppe during an overland drive by the Germans, and volunteered to take several orderlies aboard a hospital ship to remove bedridden patients, transferring them to vehicular transport bound for Fecamp. He then made his way south to Fecamp on foot, leading a number of orderlies as well as other allied military who joined the march. For these actions he was promoted to the rank of major in the army. Both of his daughters served in the Women's Land Army during the war and my mother has been an active participant in a number of events and reunions relating to this service.
    The second photo is of Robert, at top row centre, with his parents and 5 siblings. His younger brother, William Freemantle Smith, who died during WW I, is standing at left; between William and Robert is Margaret; on the other side of Robert is Henrietta, the eldest; seated from left to right are their parents Mary Garnett and Robert Smith, and Catherine, their second eldest child; the little one is Charlotte Elizabeth (Betty). As you have noted, my mother Pamela Elizabeth (Betty) was born in 1920, and her sister, Margaret (Peggy), who died in January, 2016, was born in 1922. Peggy came to Canada in January 1949, married Leslie Snell from Essex in September, 1950, and moved to Los Angeles in 1956. They had one son, Peter Robert Snell, who currently lives in Los Angeles. My mother, Betty, came to Canada for Peggy's wedding and decided to stay. She married my father, Angelo Fortunato Tessaro, on Sept. 3, 1955 and they had six children: Robin, Mia, Gina, Daniel, Peggy, and Sarah, all living in the Vancouver area. We're in touch with my cousin Timothy Lord in Shropshire, who is the son of Robert's youngest sister, Charlotte Elizabeth. I will forward a link to this page to him, as I think he will be most interested. We'll do our best to answer any questions you have about our family, and are interesting in learning more about your extensive research into the family lineage.
    My best regards,
    Gina
     

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  2. PaulDoodson

    PaulDoodson New Member

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    Good afternoon Gina, many thanks for your reply, I have typed some information up, as you can probably imagine there are lots of branches so I've just typed some bits and pieces of interest up. It's still a work in progress as you never truly finish. I'm cutting and pasting the text I've typed below. This is very very basic, the tree is a lot more detailed. I loved seeing the photographs! To me I like to see more than just dates and names, it's lovely to put faces to them and imagine their lives.

    The Cathcart Smiths

    Robert Sydney Steele Cathcart Smiths Father was called Robert Cathcart Smith and his Mother was called Mary Garnett. I will concentrate first on the Cathcart Smith lineage because that is the furthest line I have traced, my family the Doodson’s still live in Warrington where your Garnett ancestors came from and made their fortune in the furniture business. My Great Great Great Uncle Robert Garnett and his son my first Cousin (4 times removed) also Robert Garnett, Robert (Snr.) started the company and with his son and other brothers made it a huge success, more of them later. I have now put you all on the tree Gina and I will write this from the perspective of your Mother.

    There is so much on the tree, the current person total is 2,970 people, so I have to scroll a lot to confirm relationships etc. I have been researching it for 20 years.

    Your Great Grandfather was Robert Smith Esq. he was born in 1812 and he married Cathrine Selina Cathcart who was born 1800. Her parents your Great Great Grandparents were Archibald H Cathcart b1764 and Frances H Fremantle b.unknown but she died in 1821. Your Great Great Great Uncle was General William Schaw Cathcart, and he was the 1st Earl Cathcart he was born in 1755.
    Your Great Great Great Grandfather was Charles Schaw Cathcart, 9th Lord Cathcart b1721 and your Great Great Great Grandmother was The Honourable Jane Hamilton Countess Cathcart b1726 who was the daughter of Lord Archibald Hamilton b1673. Your Great x3 Uncle Lord Hamilton is the same Lord William Hamilton b.1730 who married Catherine Barlow and then Emma Lyon who became Lady Emma Hamilton who infamously had an affair with Nelson and bore his child. She is often described as the most popular woman of her time and compared to a modern day Diana, Princess of Wales such was her popularity and beauty.

    You are directly related to all Hamilton family, also through James Hamilton, 1st Duke of Hamilton b1606 (Great x5 Grandfather) you are related to William Fielding and Susan Villiers who is your Great x6 Grandmother. There is so many on these branches that I am summing up.

    You are related to Princess Mary of Scotland Mary Stewart b1453 (Princess of Scotland; Countess of Arran; Lady Hamilton) who married James Hamilton b1475 she is your Great x9 Grandmother and she was the eldest daughter of James II. This means your Great x10 Grandfather is James II of Scotland. His wife Mary of Guelders was from the Burgandinian Court, she is your Great x10 Grandmother ......which is a whole other branch.

    This Royal lineage goes right back through all the previous Kings of Scotland to Robert the Bruce. He is your Great x15 Grandfather. I have traced back to 1245 to a Robert de Brewes b.unknown d.1245

    Margaret III of Flanders (13 April 1350 – 16/21 March 1405) is your Great x14 Grandmother.
    You are a 3rd Cousin 9 times removed of Mary Queen of Scots.

    The tree is very big but I like to use it as I can see the relationships on it.
    Modern examples, you and I are 4th Cousins. You are also related to Sir Maurice Jenks who is your 3rd Cousin, you are related to the current Jenks Baronets, Sir Richard John Peter Jenks. You and I are both related to Queen Anne and Queen Mary The last of the Stuart dynasty. They are your 7th cousins 4 times removed, I am actually related to them through Anne Hyde their Mother who married James II.
    You are a 12th Cousin (4 times removed) of Elizabeth II Queen of the United Kingdom.

    Your Great Great Grandfather was Robert Garnett b1806 and your Great Great Grandmother was Mary Susannah Thornely b1801 she is my Great Great Great Aunt as she was the sister of Harriet Thornely (your Great Great Aunt) who is my Great Great Great Grandmother, this is where we are related. My Great Great Great Grandfather Henry Ashton was also a cabinet maker. Henry and Robert married the two Thornely sisters from Stockport. After they were married they lived next door to each other in Penketh Warrington. The Garnetts built a veritable furniture empire in the late 19th and early 20th Century, they had showrooms in Chester, Southport and Warrington. The Warrington showroom had attached to it a huge factory which sadly has just been approved for demolition. We have tried desperately to save the crenellated Italianate water tower which still bears the Garnett name but it too looks set for demolition, it has stood sentinel over Warrington for over a hundred years. I designed a campaign poster to try and save it. Robert Garnett was a truly charitable man, he built churches and schools so the poor could be educated and it is said that he made Penketh what it is today.

    I find it all fascinating, you have Royal blood flowing through your ancestry and veins! I see my own ancestry as in the wings, my relative seen as a commoner married into the royal family but you have actual Royal ancestry. I have whole folders of photos of paintings of your ancestors, these are just a few. The modern town one shows the Garnett Water Tower you can just make the name out on it still.

    Best wishes
    Paul
     

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  3. Gina Tessaro

    Gina Tessaro New Member

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    Hello Paul, thank-you so much for sharing your astonishing research. The extent of your investigative work into the family lineage is quite extraordinary. For my mother at 97 years old, to learn so much about her ancestors is like a life reborn. The old Garnett and Sons furniture factory in Warrington is a Victorian treasure. I’ve been reading about it’s proposed demolition; if it goes through it will be a sad loss for the community. My mother is going through her albums and should be able to provide a little more information and some photos to further illustrate this archive. Please let me know if you have any questions that we may be able to answer regarding our more recent family lineage.
    My deepest thanks to you, for all of your hard work and generosity.
    Gina
     
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  4. PaulDoodson

    PaulDoodson New Member

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    Hello again Gina, I've been busy typing up some notables from the tree today. I've only put dates of birth on, there is more information on the tree and it contains all the siblings etc. I've even designed a little symbol for stillborn's and all those are on for the House of Stuart and other Royal houses.
    To be honest researching has been a life saver for me this year, my Dad died at the beginning of the year and I've had such a horrible time with everything, it truly has kept me sane. I've been researching off and on for 20 years and if I feel down in the dumps I go and spend some time with the dead as I call it and do some research. You having such an interesting and documented ancestry as helped me while away the hours and it truly has been a pleasure, and it never stops, I've over 3,000 people on the tree now! If I get stuck I just go and work on another bit! I have typed up some notables from your branch. I've also found some pictures to hopefully enrich the text. It would be lovely to correspond more, I hope to continue on your branch, I've added more people this week. Maybe it would be better if we emailed more recent dates of people living? I have your names on the tree now but no dates etc. I'm not sure how I send you my email, maybe one of the other members could suggest how to? Now, I'm rabbiting ! All my friends and family glaze over when I start telling them family bits and stuff I've found, once I start you can't shut me up! Here is the text I typed today
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Relationships in your family tree

    You are a Third Cousin once removed of Charles Alan Andrew Cathcart, (the current) 7th Earl Cathcart b1952
    the heir apparent his son Lord Grenock b1986 is your third cousin twice removed.

    Your gateway ancestor (which is an ancestor that is noble or has been raised to the gentry) are Robert Smith Esq. b1812
    Cathrine Selina Cathcart b1800 (these are your Great Grandparents).

    Charles Murray Cathcart (2nd Earl Cathcart previously Lord Grenock) b1783 is your first cousin 3 times removed.

    William Schaw Cathcart, 1st Earl Cathcart b1755 is your Great Great Great Uncle he married Elizabeth Elliot
    Elizabeth's Father Andrew Elliot was Lieutenant-Governor of New York, her Grandfather was Sir Gilbert Elliot of Minto, 2nd Baronet.
    Elizabeths Grandfather was mayor of Philadelphia.

    The Honorable Mary Cathcart / The Honorbale Mrs Graham b1757 is your Great Great Great Aunt
    Seen as a modern 18th century femenist she was a renowned icon of beauty in Georgian London she was painted by Gainsborough in 1755.
    Her admirers included Georgiana the Duchess of Devonshire, Robert Burns, Mary Wollstonecraft and Thomas Gainsborough.

    Charles Schaw Cathcart 9th Lord Cathcart b1721 is your Great Great Great Grandfather.
    He was a soldier and diplomat. Opposed to the restoration of the Stuart Monarchy.
    He was shot in the face in 1745, the portrait by Joshua Reynolds shows the black silk patch used to cover the scar on his cheek.
    He was created a Knight of the Order of the Thistle in 1763 and ambassador of St Petersberg well received by Catherine the Great.

    Jane, Lady Archibald Hamilton (née Lady Jane Hamilton) (before 1704 – 6 December 1753, Paris) was a British noblewoman.
    She is your Great Great Great Grandmother. She was the fifth child and third daughter of James Hamilton, 6th Earl of Abercorn (d. 1734)
    and Elizabeth Reading, daughter of Sir Robert Reading, 1st Baronet.
    She was mistress to Frederick, Prince of Wales and First Lady of the Bedchamber, Mistress of the Robes and Privy Purse to his wife, Augusta.

    Lord Archibald Hamilton of Riccarton and Pardovan is your Great Great Great Great Grandfather.
    The youngest son of William Douglas-Hamilton, Duke of Hamilton and Anne Hamilton, 3rd Duchess of Hamilton.
    The picture of the children with the bird are 2 of their children William b1730 and Elizabeth (later Countess of Warwick) b1720
    William Hamilton your Great (x4) Uncle b1730 became Lord Hamilton who married Emma Lyon who became the famous Lady Emma Hamilton.
    Elizabeth Hamilton b1720 is your Great (x4) Aunt and later became Countess of Warwick.

    Lady Emma Hamilton was the toast of the Georgian scene and has been described as the Princess Diana of her day. She was the most
    talked about and painted society hostess and would peform her "attitudes" where she was dress up as people from antiquity and guests
    would have to guess who she was. She had an affair with Adrimal Horatio Lord Nelson and bore his child (Horatia) and had a child before she
    married Lord Hamilton but she was hidden away.

    William Douglas-Hamilton, Duke of Hamilton is your Great (x5) Grandfather. He was born Lord William Douglas.
    Marrying Anne Hamilton, 3rd Duchess of Hamilton, he was created Duke of Hamilton in the Peerage of Scotland, which also allowed him to
    use his wife's subsidiary titles during his lifetime and to take the name Hamilton for him and their descendents.
    His Wife Anne Hamilton b1631 is your Great (x5) Grandmother.
    Daughter of Sir James Hamilton She was born at the Palace of Whitehall in London, where her mother was a Lady of the Bedchamber to
    Henrietta Maria of France, wife of King Charles I of Scotland and of England.

    James Hamilton, 1st Duke of Hamilton b1606 is your Great (x6) Grandfather.
    Born in Hamilton Palace in Lanarkshire, the son of James, Marquis of Hamilton, and the Lady Ann Cunningham, daughter of James, Earl of Glencairn.
    Heir to the Throne of Scotland.
    The young Earl of Arran's close ancestor was the Princess Mary, daughter to James II of Scotland and Mary of Gueldres.
    After the death in 1612 of Henry Frederick, Prince of Wales, James became third in line to the throne of Scotland, after Charles, Duke of Rothesay, and his sister Elizabeth.

    James Hamilton b1475 is your Great (x10) Grandfather who married Princess Mary Stewart of Scotland your Great (x10) Grandmother.

    Princess of Scotland Mary Stewart, Countess of Arran b1453 was the eldest daughter of King James II of Scotland and Mary of Guelders.
    Her brother was King James III of Scotland. She married twice: firstly, to Thomas Boyd, 1st Earl of Arran.
    Secondly, to James Hamilton, 1st Lord Hamilton.
    It was through her children by her second husband that the Hamilton Earls of Arran and the Stewart Earls of Lennox derived their claim to the Kingdom of Scotland.
    Mary of Guelders lineage can be traced back to Gerald II of Egmond c.1255
    (I have traced back to your x15 Great Grandparents Philippe de Valois b1341 & Margeurite de Flanderes b1350 on Mary of Guelders branch)

    James II of Scotland is your Great (x11) Grandfather.

    James I is your Great (x12) Grandfather

    Robert III is your Great (x13) Grandfather

    Robert II is your Great (x14) Grandfather

    Walter Stewart, 6th High Steward of Scotland is your Great (x15) Grandfather and husband of Marjorie Bruce eldest daughter of Robert the Bruce.

    Marjorie Bruce c1296 your Great (x15) Grandmother was the eldest daughter of Robert the Bruce King of Scotland and Isabella of Mar.
    Her Son, was the first Stewart Monarch of Scotland Robert II.

    Robert I popularly known as Robert the Bruce your Great (x16) Grandfather. One of the most famous warriors of his geneartion.
    Descended from the Anglo-Norman and Gaelic nobilities, his paternal fourth-great grandfather was King David I and this branch can be traced to 1045.
    I have traced back to a William de Brewes 3rd Lord of Annandale d1245 on this branch which is your (x20) Great Grandfather.

    Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots c1404 is your Great (x12) Grandmother and wife of James I of Scotland.
    Joan Beaufort was a daughter of John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset and Margaret Holland.
    Sh was also the granddaughter of John of Gaunt, and a half-niece of King Henry IV of England.

    Mary Stuart, Mary Queen of Scots b1542 is your 3rd Cousin 9 times removed.
    Mary, daughter of James V of Scotland was 6 days old when her Father died, she acceded to the throne, she married the Dauphin of France and briefly
    became queen consort of France until his death. Widowed she then married Lord Darnley the union was unhappy and he was found murdered 4 years later.
    On 24 July 1567, she was forced to abdicate in favour of James VI, her one-year-old son by Darnley.
    After an unsuccessful attempt to regain the throne, she fled southwards seeking the protection of her first cousin once removed, Queen Elizabeth I of England.
    Perceiving her as a threat, Elizabeth had her confined in various castles and manor houses in the interior of England. After eighteen and a half years
    in custody, Mary was found guilty of plotting to assassinate Elizabeth in 1586. She was beheaded the following year.


    James VI of Scotland is your 4th Cousin 8 times removed.

    James VI of Scotland James I of England a Great Great Grandson of Henry VII became King of England due to Elizabeth I's spinsterhood & childless reign.

    Charles I is your 5th Cousin 7 times removed.

    Queen Elizabeth II is your 12th Cousin 4 times removed.

    It would only let me upload 10 photographs ...there were more!

    Best wishes

    Paul Doodson
     
  5. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    If you click on Gina's user name, a box pops up. Within that is a link saying 'start conversation'. Click on that and you will be able to have a private conversation with her where you can let her know your email address. :)
     
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  6. PaulDoodson

    PaulDoodson New Member

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    Thank you so much :)
     
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  7. Rachael Thorley

    Rachael Thorley New Member

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    Hello, sorry this is a couple of years late. Wilbraham and Sydney (as he was known) Cathcart-Smith are my Great uncles, their sister is my grandmother and her son is my father. He knew Sydney well and is your best best for the family history and has letters dating back to the early 1800s! He even has pictures Bill (Wilbraham) drew when he was 10 as a present to my grandmother, fine pieces of art- nothing I could ever achieve! I'll gladly put you in contact and had be happy to hear from you. Feel free to get back to me. Rachael.
     
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  8. Rachael Thorley

    Rachael Thorley New Member

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    Sorry, I posted this without fully reading Gina's replies. I am Tim Lord's daughter whom she mentions.
     

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