CAROLINE MILLER DOB 1845 (ABOUT) CANNOT FIND HER PARENTS

Discussion in 'Surrey' started by BernardOC, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    There's a missing link though isn't there? Just pondering....
     
  2. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Well what we're missing are the 1841 census entries for Robert Miller (born 1820 - see post 12) and, as the icing on the cake, Caroline Fry who he married in 1842.

    I had hoped that the tailor Robert Miller of Great Suffolk Street, Southwark was our man, but he's not** which is a shame because they lived quite close to what I think may be Caroline Fry's home in Church Street, Southwark (now Burrell Street).

    Caroline's father is away but her sister Eliza, who was a witness at Caroline's wedding, is there. HO 107 Piece 1083 Book 2 Fol. 31 Page 5.

    ** 1841 HO107 Piece 1084 Book 6 Fol. 5 . Page 2 and then 1851 HO 107 Piece 1562 Fol. 292/3 Pages 12/13
     
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  3. BernardOC

    BernardOC Active Member

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    Hi,

    Lots of info to digest. Re your above Caroline Fry. There's one living in St Mary Newington 1841 census who could be one who married Robert Miller
    HO107 piece 1064 folio 37 page 12.
    Do you think this is a runner??
     
  4. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    I've had a really good look at this and I'm pretty convinced it is a different family. The main difference is that on the 1851 census for Bexley (HO107/1607/30/50) there is a visitor, Mary Fry, age 56, with the same birthplace as Caroline. This is almost certainly Caroline's mother.

    The reason I'm a little bit iffy about the 1841 Church Street census entry is that Caroline's mother appears to be called Mary Ann and that is a compound Christian name which I'd expect to see in the 1851 census. However I'm impressed by Eliza being listed in 1841 as I said before.

    I've looked into your William and Jane and I don't think they are 'our' Caroline's parents. It looks as though they were married in Fordingbridge in Hampshire on 20th April 1819 (source: FMP). Her name was Jane Head. Henry appears to have been baptised in Fordingbridge on 27th September 1819 (source: Family Search) so it was a bit of a shotgun marriage. Jane is a widow in 1851 (HO107/1562/379/15) and is still living with William in 1881 (RG11/572/52/34).

    Anyway, best of luck with all this. Do get back to TD with any queries you have from the information we've dug up. Hopefully it's on the right lines but if you find problems we'll see what else we can do.
     
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  5. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    With the 1841. Three Robert Millers turn up on FS that sort of fit, ie born Kent.
    One in particular is Robert Miller age 15-19 (?) father Robert 60-64 mother Catherine ? But there is a sister Charlotte
    Kidbrooke Kent
    3 HO107 483/17
     
  6. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Again on the 1841. Robert Miller age 20 wife Caroline age 20 living with John and Margaret Martin, Esher Street St John The Evangelist
    16
    HO107
    737/11
    Robert and Caroline have a daughter Eliza Miller age 0 born Middlesex.
    Perhaps they had Eliza before marriage.
     
  7. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Nah! That's the boat builder in post #2 found by our Wendy :(
     
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  8. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Apologies if this has been mentioned but there is on 1841, Caroline Fry, birthplace Frogham, Fordingbridge Hampshire age 20. She is living with Henry Miller 25-29 born Hampshire and Mary Ann Miller 25-29.
    7 HO107
    397/6
    Perhaps Carolines mother Mary (Ann) Fry remarried to Henry Miller.
     
  9. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Nah! Looks like she married Asher Kendall in 1845 in Fordingbridge:(
     
  10. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    This is my last stab at Caroline. It's the only one left on the 1841.:(
    Caroline Fry 19 Milliner
    Mary Ann Fry 48 Dressmaker
    Eliza Fry 17 Bonnet Maker 17
    Ellen Fry 12
    Samuel Wood Independent
    Elizabeth Wood his wife Milliner
    + a cast of thousands working for Samuels hat business.
    Page 4
    HO107
    1083/31
    Institution
    St Saviour Union
    Christ Church
     
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  11. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    I don't think this has been posted before, so ....

    1851 census of Bexley, Kent (HO107/1607, folio 30, page 50):

    Robt MILLER Head Mar 31 Tailor St Mary Cray Kent
    Caroline do Wife Mar 29 Bridgwater
    Walter do Son 8 Scholar Chelmsford Essex
    Caroline do Daur 5 do St Brides
    Eliza do Daur 4 do do
    Thomas do Son 3 do
    Fredk do Son 2 Bexley Kent
    Robt do Son 14 days do do
    Mary FRY Visitor Mar 56 Bridgwater

    Janet
     
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  12. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Just noticed you do already have the 1851 census record, so please ignore - should have read the previous posts more thoroughly.

    However, two possible baptisms for Caroline FRY at Bridgwater:

    27 April 1821 daughter of Thomas & Mary Ann FRY, Boot Seller
    21 July 1822 daughter of Thomas & Mary Ann FRY, Labourer

    Janet
     
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  13. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    That's interesting because there must be a good chance that Thomas and Mary are the same people in both entries as Ancestry has a burial in Bridgwater 2nd December 1821 for Caroline Fry aged 8 months. It's not that uncommon for parents to name a later child with a name used for one who died.
     
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  14. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Then there is this possible marriage at Bridgwater on 18 September 1817 between Thomas FRY & Mary Ann HARRIS. Baptism at Bridgwater on 14 January 1824 of Eliza daughter of Thomas & Mary Ann FRY, Labourer.

    Possible sighting of a Mary Ann FRY, widow, aged 67, born Bridgwater in the 1861 census of Clapham (RG9/368, folio 150, page 16).

    Janet
     
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  15. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    That's interesting. She was a 67 year old housemaid in the service of John Coles Symes. He was obviously a well-known solicitor and it's just possible that Mary Ann's appointment had a charitable aspect as both she and her employer came from Bridgwater.

    N.B. I could only access this record on Ancestry
     
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  16. BernardOC

    BernardOC Active Member

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    Well, thanks for all your input/data. With the help of my Cousin, I'm going to work through this to exclude the non starters and see what remains.

    Bernard
     
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  17. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    I think that should be Mary Ann THOMAS.

    There is a baptism of a Mary Ann THOMAS (father John, mother Mary) on 25 April 1794 at St Mary, Bridgewater, Somerset.
     
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  18. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    So it should, so apologies to all. I know my head feels like cotton wool due to a heavy cold, but really!! Thanks Jellylegs.

    Janet
     
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