Convict Tom

Discussion in 'Criminal Ancestors' started by Bay Horse, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    That does sound like him, Chimp.
     
  2. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Send me your email in a PM please.
     
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  3. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    I've got an acquittal 14 months earlier than that, Chimp - but it is starting to sound as though he was a habitual criminal. :eek:
     
  4. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Have sent you the possible charge (only possible because I don't know if it was him)
     
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  5. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Quite a possibility Chimp. Thomas wasn't given another conditional pardon until 1850. His name is listed as such in the Sydney Morning Herald 22/6/1850
    and in the same paper 12th May 1834, in the Supreme Court of NSW, Colonial Secretary Office dated May 2 1834..'Thomas Thorpe, holding a ticket of leave and William Devine, free by servitude, to be constables, the former from the 7th March in the room of John Stokes committed for trial by the criminal court; the latter from the 17th ultimo int he room of John Fleming dismissed for refusing to perform the duty required of him'
    From that I read that Thomas was sworn in as a constable on the 7th March and William sworn in on 17th but Thomas was convicted of what I don't know and William refused to perform his duties.:confused:
    BTW all this was at Penrith. the area we are mostly looking at.
     
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  6. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Where were we?

    Chimp has quite brilliantly dug the dirt on my man prior to him being sent for transportation. My head is in a whirl... to think I nearly put this one on the back burner again. On my fourth cup of coffee - I shall be bouncing off the walls soon.

    Sue, thank you - trying to digest all of this.
     
  7. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    There are two possible deaths, depending first on his dob.
    Only one Thorp no e but parents are listed.
    One Thomas Thorpe died 1868 at Binalong in the Southern Highlands parents and age unknown. This I think could be him.
    Another died in 1875 age 60 no parents died Goulburn also in the Southern Highlands. But I think he is a bit young...or is he?
    Off to bed and hope we wake up to another snow storm...it was magical this morning...:D
     
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  8. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Probably, Sue. My man was born 1786 so might be pushing it a bit, even for someone who seemed to lie about a lot of things.
     
  9. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Lovely! The way our British summer is heading this weekend I wouldn't be surprised to wake up to the same. :D

    As you say, lack of general information on the NSW death index makes that look quite likely. Thanks Sue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  10. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Yorkshire Gazette 7th January 1826
    On Friday last, Edward Kershaw, of Rastrick, and Thomas Thorp alias Eccles, were committed to York Castle, by Thomas Horten Esq., charged with breaking into the dwelling house of Mr James Fox, shepherd to Thomas Thornhill Esq., of Fixby, about one o’clock on Saturday morning week, and feloniously stealing therefrom six one pound notes, three sovereigns and a bottle containing a quantity of rum.

    Leeds Intelligencer 23rd March 1826
    Edward Kershaw (36) and Thomas Thorpe (39), charged with maliciously breaking into and robbing the house of James Fox, of Fixby. James Fox, woodman to Mr. Thornhill, of Fixby, near Halifax, stated, that on the 23rd Dec. he secured the door of his house and retired to bed. About half-past ten he heard a noise at the door and got up. He called out "hallo, who's there, what do you want?" A voice replied, "to come in." Witness asked what they wanted; they replied his money and if he did not open the door, they would break it open. Witness said the first man who entered he would shoot, and called out "Jack, bring the other gun." At that instant they broke in. Two men entered, and one of them told him to deliver up his money, or they would blow out his brains. Witness returned upstairs, took eight notes out of his pocket-book, which he throw under the bed, and then gave the book to them, which contained three notes and three sovereigns. They said that there was more money in the house, and ordered witness to march into the front room. He did so, and they followed him. The moon shone full in the room, and he had a fair view of the robbers, one of whom was Kershaw, whom he had known some years. Thorpe was the other man. They ransacked all the drawers and cup- boards in the house, and Thorpe burst open a box, out of which they took three £1 notes, and a bottle of rum. They then left the house. Joseph Pearson, constable, apprehended Kershaw on the 29th, and then repaired to Thorpe's, whom he met coming out of the house. He seized him, and asked his name; he replied John Buckley. Witness took him into the house, looked at him, and said, "Why, thy name is Tom Thorpe." He replied, “It is.” Joseph Walker, of Halstrick, about a mile from Fixby Hall, saw Kershaw about eight o'clock, on the night of the robbery, at his (the witness's) house. Thorpe was in the habit of going to Kershaw's house. Kershaw declared his innocence, and said he never was in Fox's house in his life. Thorpe said he never saw the prosecutor before the time be met him at the magistrates. The Jury found the prisoners Guilty— Death recorded.

    :)
     
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  11. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    "Why, thy name is Tom Thorpe!"

    Thank you so much Ann.

    And this is why the name Thomas fell out of favour all at once within the family. :oops::oops:
     
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  12. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Just a couple more which may, or may not, be Tom...:rolleyes:

    York Herald 1st February 1806
    Thomas Thorpe, Thomas Howcroft and Joseph Priest, all of Hickleton, labourers, indicted for a misdemeanour, in playing at quoits on the public high road, and by which a child was accidentally killed, submitted themselves to the court, when it appearing that the misfortune had not arisen from wilful intention, they were reproved and fined 20s each.

    Sheffield Independent 15th April 1820
    Thomas Thorpe and James Pearson, for stealing at Halifax, a quantity of wearing apparel, the property of John Wright – six months.
     
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  13. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    The first one probably not, Ann, as it's out of area. The second one, quite likely him.
     
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  14. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    I have been mulling this over. Whereas some transportees arrived in Australia of seemingly previous good character (and in the case of my OH's 3rd great uncle had stolen a couple of chickens in a bid to stop his family starving to death) then settled in Oz and lived exemplary lives afterwards, others, like Tom, were obviously hardened criminals. And yet ten years after arriving he was made a constable? :nailbiting:
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Trusted convicts who had attained a ticket of leave were used as convict constables to supervise other convicts in their duties. Road gangs etc. They weren’t policeman as such and only used with other convicts. There was a shortage of police so trusted convicts were used to help out.
    I’m not sure if this is your Tom but it just could be. However he obviously didn’t last long, being committed for trial for some other misdeed.
    And I will add that they didn’t get a ticket of leave unless they had earned it. So he must have been good until 1834.
    I’m also quite perplexed that as he was committed with an alias of Eccles and John, none of either is showing up on his records.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  16. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Aha! Makes sense.

    Regarding the aliases, his name isn't Thorpe either :rolleyes: - but it's the name he answered to on his arrest for burglary. His real name appears only in British criminal records as far as I can see - the Albion and the date he arrived in NSW are the only sure way of tracking him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  17. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Also *lightbulb moment*... the couple he was living with in the 1828 census were a constable and wife - but had ships' names in a separate column. All becoming clear. Thank you Sue.
     
  18. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Who was he living with? Thanks, that might help find him.
    The ship would be his transport. Convicts were known by name and ship.
     
  19. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Just found him assigned to Mrs Parsons at Evan District in 1828. William and Mrs Parsons South Creek, Evans District. William was a convict constable.
    I haven’t looked at the 1828 until now, it is only just available free, but found my 3?x great grandmother on there at Patrick Plains assigned to Samuel Bowman, where she married her convict hubby. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  20. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Sorry, Sue - was out for the day. Yes, Mr. and Mrs. Parsons also had ships' names next to their census entry. As I say, it had just become clear - they were also convicts.

    :)
     

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