Could I have some thoughts please

Discussion in 'Essex' started by Findem, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    I am looking for the parents of my 5 X great grandfather John Theobald who married Hannah Marriage 7 April 1741 at Little Tey Essex.

    I found a burial for a John Theobald at Lt Tey 16 Feb 1800, it was noted his age was 85 which would see him born about 1715, so likely to be the John Theobald husband of Hannah Marriage.

    Couldn’t find on the Essex Parish Register Index (EPRI) a John Theobald of a suitable birth/baptism year in Little Tey, however in nearby Birch I found John Theobald baptised 5 Feb 1720 the son of Thomas Tibel and Susan Upsher, their four known children had their surname spelled Theobald.

    Note: John and Hannah named a daughter Susanna and the following four generations of my Theobald ancestors named a daughter Susan or Susannah.

    My problem is that on the EPRI I found a burial for a John Theobald 11 Feb 1720 at Birch but with no further info attached.

    In the EPRI I put in just the first name John and the period 1705 to 1725, place Birch and found burials in 1713, 1717, 1720 and 1723 where the father’s name was noted in the entry.

    I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on, would it be OK to assume that the John Theobald baptised 5 Feb 1720 at Birch the son of Thomas and Susan is not the John Theobald who was buried at Birch 11 Feb 1720?

    By the way there was also another John Theobald baptised at Birch 16 Jan 1725 the son of John and Elizabeth but of course neither of those two Johns could be the one buried in 1720.

    Please don't hesitate to answer in the negative if that's what you think, honest thoughts are what I'm looking for.

    I think I should mention that John and Hannah's first and second daughters were Hannah and Elizabeth, the first and second sons were John and William, eight children in all, seven baptised in Little Tey the second child, Elizabeth was baptised in Great Tey. None of the eight children were named Thomas.
     
  2. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Is there any chance to see the actual parish register, and not just the index? No clue, here, just asking.
     
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  3. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    Where did Thomas Tibel and Susan Upsher come from? On both Ancestry's index and FMP's it just says Thomas and Susan Theobald.

    I have recently renewed my sub to SEAX, so had a look.

    upload_2019-10-8_17-48-6.png
     
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  4. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    The John Theobald buried on 11 Feb 1720 was an infant - no parents named.
    upload_2019-10-8_18-1-11.png
     
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  5. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Thanks Jellylegs for checking for me, much appreciated.

    Not sure where Thomas or Susan were born or lived prior to marriage, all I have so far is their marriage at Great Birch and four children baptised at Birch. They were married 20 Feb 1716 at Birch and their 4 known children were baptised the same place:-
    John Theobald 5 Feb 1720.
    Mary Theobald 13 Apr 1721.
    Susannah 7 Dec 1722.
    Elizabeth 8 Dec 1723.
    I suspect at least one child, probably a Thomas, was baptised elsewhere in the four year gap between the 1716 marriage and the 1720 baptism of John, after all they appear to have no problem in procreating. :)

    So the John Theobald buried 11 Feb 1720 was an infant, I guess that puts paid to the John Theobald baptised 5 Feb 1720 at Birch being my ancestor, I had a horrible feeling that would be the case. Back to the drawing board! :nailbiting: :reading: :D

    On the bright side perhaps now I don't need to find Susan Upsher. :D

    I have a feeling that the John Theobald husband of Hannah Marriage will come from that general area i.e. around the east side of Colchester but I could be wrong (again), time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  6. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    I'm going to check out a John Theobald baptised 5 Apr 1718 at Earls Colne, son of Thomas, could be the John Theobald who married Hannah Marriage 1741 at Little Tey.

    I'm also going to check out a Hannah Marriage who was baptised 4 Apr 1712 at Markshall.
    Earls Colne, Little Tey and Markshall are all pretty close to each other, Markshall is not in the index of a couple of map books I have but fortunately I know where it is, it's very close to Coggeshall and I suspect it's been swallowed up by Coggeshall.
     
  7. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    It appears that the Earls Colne John Theobald did not marry in Earls Colne nor was he buried there.

    If he married Hannah Marriage in 1741 he would have been 23 years of age which is acceptable. However I'm hesitant to accept him because his age and not being buried or married in Earls Colne are all he has going for him.

    Unfortunately I couldn't find any other Theobald children born or baptised in Earls Colne 1708 to 1728 to facilitate comparing a naming pattern.

    These Theobalds :mad: :nailbiting: :headbang: :D
     
  8. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Well I think I'll have to leave John Theobald for the moment in the hope I can think/find something which will give me a decision, what concerns me about the EPRI on Ancestry is what is hidden i.e. incorrectly transcribed.

    Here are a three examples that cropped up in my John Theobald and his wife Hannah Marriage research.

    John Theobald & Hannah Marriage married 7 Apr 1741 Lt Tey, Essex.
    EPRI: John Reobald & Hannah Marjays.

    Ruth Marriage baptised 19 May 1728 Markshall, Essex
    EPRI: Pith Marriage.

    Elizabeth Theobald buried 1743 Lt Tey.
    EPRI: Elizabeth Theeleld buried 4 Dec 1742 Lt Tey.

    Not sure which date is correct, the 1743 year came from The Genealogist when I had a Diamond sub prior to 2017.
    I eventually found that entry by entering Elizabeth, 1742 + & - 5 Years and Little Tey and scrolling through numerous Elizabeths.

    I've already added a correcting note in "Comment" in the John Reobald entry and I will correct the names in the other two entries.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  9. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Now corrected Pinth to Ruth but I've left the Elizabeth Theeled error for now because I'm not sure which of the two years, 1742 or 1743 is correct.
     
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