Customs & Excise staff registers

Discussion in 'Coastguard & Customs' started by Huncamunca, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    The Society of Genealogists' latest 'Library News' includes this announcement:​

    'Amongst the new items received this quarter are 32 volumes of Customs and Excise staff registers covering the period 1833-1911. These were donated by HM Revenue and Customs and include information such as date and place of birth, rank, station, salary and date of admission. When a master index to these has been produced they will be made available to researchers.'​

    I wonder why HMRC didn't give them to The National Archives?​

    sog.org.uk/the-library/library-news/​

     
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  2. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I hadn't spotted that item. I suppose we'll have to wait for the index before we can evaluate how useful they might be, bearing in mind that Customs and Excise were separate departments until 1909.

    One problem I came across with Customs staff lists at the National Archives was that they seem not to have included non-established staff. It would be good if these registers filled the gap.
     
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  3. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any updates on these records at all, please?

    I am looking for information about a 4 x great grandfather who was apparently a Customs Officer in Liverpool at the beginning of C19, but who disappeared without trace before the 1841 Census.

    Perhaps heaved into the Mersey by an irate "customer" or knocked on the head and put on a slow boat to China?
     
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  4. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    I'm afraid I haven't heard anything else about them since posting last year. Perhaps someone at the SoG could tell you if indexing is under way? There are contact details and an online enquiry form here:
    http://www.
    sog.org.uk/about/contact-the-society/

    There are a lot of customs records at Kew too, but they sound rather daunting: The National Archives' guide to these records says 'There is no single index of people or places that can be used to find service records, so your search for information might require some patience.':(
     
  5. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    I have never managed to find a single record in Kew; I find it incredibly user-unfriendly. I did look up Customs records before posting here, but the only Liverpool records - which you couldn't see on-line anyway, as far as I could make out - started in about 1875, which is far too late for my bloke. Lots of other places, of course, had earlier records. It's a conspiracy :eek:

    I shall do as you suggest and get in touch with the SoG. Thanking you kindly, ma'am ():-)
     
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  6. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Have you had a lookee here Lass? lots of very informative items here-in.
    http://www. old-merseytimes.co.uk/
    space inserted- they ask for donations.
     
  7. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Wendy. I had this site bookmarked on my last computer but had completely forgotten about it. I've just wasted nearly an hour dipping in to bits of it and reading, reading :)

    At first glance there doesn't seem to be anything on Customs, but I shall look more carefully when I have proper time.
     
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  8. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    I had my first foray into customs records at Kew yesterday. It was a very steep learning curve! So much new jargon to learn, and it doesn't help that their user guide on customs officers is pretty basic.

    Now I have some idea what to look for in the catalogue, I see that Liverpool outport records are in CUST 80, with a note saying 'Most of the earlier records of this outport were lost due to enemy action in the Second World War.' That is a great loss, for (from what I saw for Whitehaven in CUST 82) there can be wonderfully informative records here.

    However, all is not lost! There will be references to staff at Liverpool elsewhere at Kew. The CUST 18 records I looked at had quarterly lists of staff, arranged port by port, with job title and salary. Here is the contents list from CUST 18/431 (for the quarter ending 5 April 1787), so you can see which ports are included in the book: Liverpool is there!
    IMG_4560.jpg

    I have got photographs of the Liverpool pages for CUST 18/426 (quarter ending 5 July 1786), as that's one of the volumes I looked at for Figgs. If by any remote chance this is the right time period for you, I'd be happy to check whether your man appears there. Otherwise, I could check the Liverpool listing for a specified date next time I'm at Kew.

    These records in CUST 18 go up to 1813, and then there's a second series of records beginning in 1814 in CUST 19. I've no idea if they follow the same format throughout.

    I still have lots to learn: I haven't ventured into T yet (Treasury records: there are supposed to be pay lists there) and failed to find anything useful about excise officers. The time just seems to go so quickly at Kew!
     
  9. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    Huncamunca, you are an absolute angel, I hope you enjoyed being at Kew; I've never got further than the web page and catalogue which has rather put me off, quite apart from the problem of Sioux to get there!

    All I know about about my chap was that he was a tea dealer when the son from whom I am descended was born:

    Baptism: 20 Jan 1817 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
    Samuel Gaunt - [Child] of Myott Gaunt & Elizabeth
    Abode: Maguire [Street]
    Occupation: Tea Dealer
    Baptised by: J. Pulford, Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1816 - 1818, Page 26, Entry 104
    © Lancashire On-line Parish Clerks

    Myott's wife died in 1828, and there was a death notice in the Liverpool Mercury of Friday, April 25th 1828 which said: "On Thursday, the 3d instant, of a typhus fever, Mrs Elizabeth Gaunt, wife of Myott Gaunt, of the Customs, aged 44 years, a good wife and a tender mother."

    This is actually the only reference I have to him being "of the Customs".

    He was a tea dealer in 1817, but there is also a notice in the Liverpool Mercury of Friday, December 6th 1816, saying: "The Partnership hitherto subsisting between Myott Gaunt and William Bloore, as dealers in tea and coffee, is this day dissolved by mutual consent.

    Witness our hands, MYOTT GAUNT. WM BLOORE. Nov 30th 1816"

    Perhaps he carried on on his own for a while and then got a job with the Customs.
     
  10. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    I made a mistake :oops: I have another reference to Myott being a Customs Officer.

    Samuel was their last child (as far as I know - I'd better check!) until Sarah, born in 1826:

    Baptism: 23 Feb 1826 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
    Sarah Gaunt - [Child] of Myott Gaunt & Elizabeth
    Abode: Maguire Street
    Occupation: Customhouse officer
    Baptised by: P. Bulmer Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1825 - 1826, Page 86, Entry 687
    © Lancashire On-line Parish Clerks

    After a quick check on the above-named site, there doesn't seem to be another baptism to Myott & Elizabeth between Samuel and Sarah, so that's just the two references to him being a Customs Man. After his wife's death, he went AWOL, so I was hoping to find an "end of service due to drowning or death of some other means"!

    I need closure!!
     
  11. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Is this Myott the one born in 1770? Have you discounted this death? :

    Myott Gaunt- Liverpool xx-292 Sep 1/4 1840 (from images)
    ........
    Deaths Sep 1840 (Freebmd)
    Gaunt Myott Liverpool 20-292
    He would have been 70.

    Have you checked any burial places in L'pool.
     
  12. Old Stoneface

    Old Stoneface Well-Known Member

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    Wendy, I was thrilled when I found that death entry and sent off for the certificate straightaway, because who else could it be?

    Unfortunately, it was Myott's grandson who had been named after him (it became quite a family name) and who had died of measles, aged 3, poor little mite.
     
  13. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Oh dang! poor little fella, I did look through old search notes, yep they still linger among others here. I did rather think it was sitting rather obvious for you to have missed it tho'.
    Oh well onward & outward...I do hope he's not one of the many unknowns who died where-ever.
     
  14. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Member

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    Hi Huncamunca, is there any chance you could post a typical page (not just the index page that you have already posted) showing quarterly lists of staff, arranged port by port, with job title and salary. I'm very curious to see what sort of info is there as I may need to look at these records in Kew in the future in my ongoing hunt for John Meredith- Excise Officer (presumably in Liverpool). There was nothing of any use in old merseytimes.
     
  15. Oz Faremeister

    Oz Faremeister Member

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    Something that may be useful to others. There are listings of when people were appointed and when they left in the Parliamentary Papers. The example below from Parliamentary Papers Number 14 gives an example of the listing (not my John Meredith by the way).
     

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