Deciphering - Freedom of the City Papers

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by Stafford, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    William Hildreth's Freedom of the City Papers 1809.
    image.jpg
    Thank you.

    Also, under what circumstances were the papers granted?
     
  2. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    lost first post.

    William Hildreth of Mincing lane broker wass the the 11 of JUly Aug admitted H..... (herewith?) into the freedom of the company of Paviors.
    www.
    familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Apprenticeship_in_London_and_Borough_Towns

    paviors.org.uk/linksToOtherLiveryCompanies.aspx

    Forgive links, bandaged digit makimg typing oopsie (Sorted)
     
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  3. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    "William Hildreth of Mincing(?) Lane Bricker/Broker(?) was this the 11th of July 1809 admitted ????? into the Freedom of the Company of Paviors"

    According to Wikipedia, one can become a member of a Livery Company in several ways:

    "Members generally fall into two categories: freemen and liverymen. One may become a freeman, or acquire the "freedom of the company", upon fulfilling the Company's criteria: traditionally, one may be admitted by "patrimony", if either parent was a liveryman of the Company; by "servitude", if one has served the requisite number of years as an apprentice to the Company; or by "redemption", by paying a fee. The Company may also vote to admit individuals as honorary freemen. Freemen are generally entitled to advance to becoming liverymen by a vote of the court of the Company. Only liverymen can take part in the election of the Lord Mayor, the Sheriffs, and the other traditional officers of the City."

    it seems that he is a Freeman, but I cannot interpret the ????? word as patrimony, servitude, redemption or honorary -- though it seems closest to honorary.

    Sorry, not sure I've been much help but perhaps someone has more knowledge of Livery Companies
     
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  4. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    ah Wendy you answered as I was typing --- what's up with the finger?
     
  5. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Replacing battery in small clock, a bit difficult sharp edge, right on finger tip. guess who didn't wash dimer dishes? I cooked two different meals all okay until readying dishes in sink, profuse redness. gotta stop those darn asprin.
     
  6. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    ouch:(
     
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  7. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Thank you both so much. I'm having a little giggle at the moment. Here was me thinking he had done something heroic and was awarded the keys of the city and membership of the Company of Saviours!

    So sorry about the finger.
     
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  8. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Sorry Stafford

    being admitted to the Worshipful company of "Pavers" isn't nearly so glamorous :(; I prefer your interpretation though ;)
     
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  9. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    The ????? could be '& Sworn'
     
  10. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    I think you could be right ;) it certainly seems to end in -orn
     
  11. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Definitely looks like sworn. Thank you.

    image.jpg Could the 'Briker?' refer to his profession? Perhaps laying bricks, paving or cobbles?
     
  12. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    yep - I've seen one worded almost identically and another which ended "and he took the oath of a Freeman accordingly".

    Ann
     
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  13. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Well he's in the company of "Pavers" so maybe but I think it actually says 'Broker'
     
  14. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    So do I but I can't work out how a 'Broker' fits in. I haven't found a definition circa 1809. Perhaps he broke the pavers! I also noted Mincing Lane was the centre of the spice and tea trade, as well as opium and other drugs, perhaps he was brokering a deal for the Company of Paviors! (Why can't I find the smilies on my iPad?)
     
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  15. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    I think "Broker" is just a middleman or agent, but I don't know how or if the meaning has changed much over time
     
  16. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    According to the Index of Old Occupations, a Broker = a salesman or middleman to a supplier for arranging sales.
     
  17. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    People's actual trades/professions weren't necessarily anything to do with the livery company to which they belonged, particularly by the 19th century. There's some background here about the changing role of the London guilds here:

    http://www.
    londonlives.org/static/Guilds.jsp

    I agree with earlier comments that William was a broker. The OED has a number of definitions of this word, none with any obvious connection to paving. Perhaps there will be references to William elsewhere which will shed light on what sort of broker he was?
     
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  18. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I've always found the Guilds very confusing. My other half has two branches with Guild members. One belonged to the Company of Leathersellers and was a master baker. The other belonged to the Clothworker's Company, started his working life as a waterman and ended up as a baker. In both cases the archivists from both the Leatherseller's and the Clothworker's were very helpful and gave me more information than I could have hoped for.

    The Worshipful Company of Paviors has a web-site is at http:
    //paviors.org.uk/default.aspx
    but it would appear their records are held at the London Metropolitan Archives http://
    search.lma.gov.uk/LMA_DOC/CLC_L_PD.PDF

    Quoting from the Paviors' web site
    Records of the Paviors date back to 1280, when Paviors were first made responsible for the repair and cleaning of London's streets and pavements. The trade included 'gong ferming', the emptying and cleansing of privies, a profitable business carried out in appalling conditions. In 1302 four Paviors were appointed as Surveyors of Pavements to regulate the making of pavements; further surveyors were appointed in 1311 not all of whom were Paviors which led to conflicts of interest between guilds.

    Best wishes
    Ann
     
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  19. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    This is the first time I have explored the Guilds so your help and links are much appreciated. The Hildreth family I am researching were blacksmiths in Buckinghamshire. I am not sure this is the William I am looking for. Some of the marriages and christenings were in London so there may be a connection. I am looking for a GGGrandfather's father.

    Thank you all for your time.
     
  20. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    So Stafford all's well that ends in a giggle? It's been an interesting thread that continued while I dreamed of other things.
     

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