Deciphering place name help please.

Discussion in 'Church Records' started by Findem, Nov 5, 2016.

  1. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    11,235
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    The entry is a marriage between Robert Sarle (Searles) of Arksenden Essex and Ellen Rolfe of ? Hartford? 2 Oct 1633 at Widford Herts D/P 123 1/1 image 68 of 78. I just can't pin down Ellen's "of" place, I'm OK with the rest of the entry. Robert's place Arksden is no doubt a phonetic rendition of the way Robert pronounced Arksenden which is just across the border.

    Ellen Rolf marriage 1633 Widford.JPG

    Ellen Rolf marriage 1633 Widford.JPG Marriage Searles 1633 Robert & Ellen Rolfe at Widford  Herts.jpg

    In the second image the marriage is on the second page.

    Duuno what went wrong with the title, for Dechering read Deciphering. :confused: (Updated thread title. ;) ) :rolleyes: :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  2. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    8,451
    Likes Received:
    30,377
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    ?olfoird..m
    ?offoird..m
    There appears to be the same letters as the 'lf' in Rolfe. Then again in could be 'tt'. Have a look at October below. Then again it could be.....
     
    Findem likes this.
  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,613
    Likes Received:
    17,046
    Location:
    South Australia
    "Peffeird" "Poffoird" in the county of Romford?
     
    Findem likes this.
  4. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    8,451
    Likes Received:
    30,377
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    In the county of Hertford..I actually followed Sis and Wendy's instructions, in a previous post, to enlarge....:D
    The only place that comes close is Potten End but if it is that then I have no idea how it came out as what is written above. o_O
    Pottend?
     
    Findem likes this.
  5. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,613
    Likes Received:
    17,046
    Location:
    South Australia
    I can't work out the number or whatever of October. Looks like Porondo which sounds Spanish but can't find anything near except in a book which I cannot translate. :(
     
    Findem likes this.
  6. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    8,451
    Likes Received:
    30,377
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    The marriage before is September and the one after is the Eighth of October so I reckon it is the Second of October.
    It's really quite annoying as his 'e's and 'o's look the same.
     
    Findem and Ma-dotcom like this.
  7. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,613
    Likes Received:
    17,046
    Location:
    South Australia
    Secondo- second in Italian, not too different. "s' same as in September up above. goodie Sue. :)
     
    Findem and Archie's Mum like this.
  8. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    5,884
    Likes Received:
    22,721
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Essendon. The ff is a double 's' and the first letter is written in lower case instead of a capital. Ergo: effendon.
     
    Findem likes this.
  9. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    8,451
    Likes Received:
    30,377
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    Family Search has Robert Sarle marrying Ellen Betts 2 Oct 1633 Widford
     
    Findem likes this.
  10. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,613
    Likes Received:
    17,046
    Location:
    South Australia
    I tried the 'ss' bit Jan, didn't account for the lack of a letter after the 'd', where -in County followed. but then I am a novice still.
     
    Findem likes this.
  11. crazycatlady22

    crazycatlady22 Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    848
    Location:
    Blue Mountains, Australia
    Well, I think that the date is the second day of October. In the county of Hertford.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
    Findem likes this.
  12. crazycatlady22

    crazycatlady22 Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    848
    Location:
    Blue Mountains, Australia
    Aessendon? [Essendon]
     
    Findem likes this.
  13. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,443
    Likes Received:
    15,079
    Location:
    North Devon, England
    I go along with AM and think it is Pottend for Potten End.....I think the bit that looks like the end of the name is 'in' and then Hartford follows on the next line.
     
    Ma-dotcom and Archie's Mum like this.
  14. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    8,451
    Likes Received:
    30,377
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    Knowing who she was married to before Robert Sarle came along may help and of course a maiden name. :sceptical:
     
    Findem likes this.
  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    8,451
    Likes Received:
    30,377
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    There is a marriage of a Thomas Rolfe to Ellen Swallow 1624 at Codicote Herts.
     
    Findem likes this.
  16. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    11,235
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    these are words I'm pretty confident in.

    Robert Sarle's place is given as Arksden Essex which is Arksenden in Essex, just across the Essex and Hertfordshire border.

    The day of the month is the secondo i.e. the second, the Latin spelling of many priests and clerks was a bit iffy, they obviously knew how to speak it but fell short in spelling Latin. In Spanish second is Secundo I think from memory.

    On rechecking I agree the bride's surname would be Betts, I have noticed Betts in both nearby places Ware and Sawbridgeworth.

    Really the only word which is still I think a mystery if the brides abode, it's in the county of Hertford which I take to mean Hertfordshire. According to my road Atlas there is no town or village in Herts with a double f in it and with a double t there are only Potten End and Potters Bar in Herts, no Peff... or Pett...

    Btw this Robert although an Essex Searle(s) doesn't appear to fit in my direct Searles line but that doesn't mean he is not related to my lot.

    Another Searles, William Searle of Elmdon Essex the son of Thomas Searle married Elizabethe Reynoldes daughter of John Reynoldes of the parish of Nazinge (Nazeing) Essex 20 something of Dec 1604 at Widford Daughter of blank Yeoman D/P 123 1/1 image 51. This William although another Essex Searle(s) doesn't appear to fit in my direct Searles line but again, that doesn't mean he is not related to my lot.

    I'm going to check them out in the Ken Searles book to see if I can find where they fit in the scheme of things. I have the image which after Ellen Betts place of origin is solved (or not) I'll put up for those who like solving puzzles to see if the date of the marriage can be sorted in my book of Simple Latin fails me on the date.

    When/if I find where the two Searle(s) in the marriages fit, in the scheme of things, I'll post the details.
     
    Daft Bat and Archie's Mum like this.
  17. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    11,235
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    Please feel free to disagree with anything I post it's rumoured I have been wrong before. :confused: :sceptical: :)
     
    Philippa, Daft Bat and Archie's Mum like this.
  18. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    8,451
    Likes Received:
    30,377
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    Agree. It looks more like Betts to me now too. The first letter a definite 'B'.:)
     
    Findem likes this.
  19. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    11,235
    Location:
    NSW, Australia, ex Chelmsford Essex
    I've sorted that one out now with the aid of my trusty booklet SIMPLE LATIN for Family Historians, it is the 26th Dec 1604. It was written xx something j (j = 1) I've worked it out that the something can only be a v, certainly not an x, so if written more plainly xxvj. So simple when you know how. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
  20. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

    Offline
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    11,553
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    We knew what you meanded, Derek!!!
     
    Findem likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice