Dinah Chapman and John Ward

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by annabel, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    A bit of an old one here. This couple had a son, also John, born in 1760 in Bermondsey, recorded in non conformist registers, which gives her maiden name and father also as John. I have not found any other births

    Dinah is recorded in a rate book of 1787 as living in Grange Walk, Bermondsey and paid land tax 1783–1789

    There is a burial for a Dinah Ward in 1802 at Maze Pond which was a Baptist chapel, and very close by. It gives her birth date as 1724.

    If I have it right, this means she had her only child aged 36. This seems rather odd to me. I'm assuming that John must have died by 1783 as it's her name in the tax records

    I wonder if anyone can help me work out why she was so old. I haven't found any marriages. I'm using Dinah to try to help me find John Ward her husband, too many with that name, but I think he might have been from Dublin
     
  2. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Had a look where I can which is only FS and England Hampshire Parish Registers has a marriage for a Dinah Chapman and Jno Ward, 22/7/1758. Salisbury Wiltshire. The only one I could see.
     
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  3. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I have just found what could be the burial of John Ward on 5 June 1783, according to the address. It says he was 41 and it was on the order of the coroner. So when their son was born he was 18 and she was 36:confused:
     
  4. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    The actual register entry for son John's birth/baptism shows that Dinah was the daughter of John CHAPMAN. Look for the baptism of a likely Dinah with that information brings up one on 27 October 1724 at Wantage, Berkshire of a Dinah daughter of John & Elizabeth CHAPMAN, which certainly ties in with the burial record for Dinah WARD doesn't it.

    Berkshire Marriage Index shows the marriage on 24 July 1758 at Reading, Berkshire of a Dinah CHAPMAN of the parish & John WARD of St Olaves, Southwark, by licence.

    Janet
     
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  5. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    FMP have a transcript of a Sarum Marriage Licence Bond dated 22 July 1758 for the above couple but unfortunately it doesn't give any ages which might have helped. I think the marriage record that Sue found is a record of the Licence judging by the date, and not the actual marriage, although it has also been entered as an actual marriage on FMP's transcription. I think if you look more closely at the actual burial record for John WARD, it shows his age as 47 not 41, which is probably more realistic, although he is still a good few years younger than Dinah.

    Janet
     
  6. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Ooh well done! That makes sense when you put it like that. Thank you. So the bond was in Salisbury, they married in Reading and they lived in Bermondsey. I wonder why?
    He likely worked with cloth, his son was a tailor and his brother a calico printer. I wonder if there a migration to those places from Dublin? The circumstances of his death could help with his occupation but it's such a hideous name to check in the papers. Hospital wards, parish wards etc come up. Much to think about
     
  7. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Use quotation marks. ;)

    If you just search for John Ward, then all sorts of wards show up.:rolleyes: However, if you search on Google for "John Ward" you should get instances of where both parts were together in a document.

    Worth a try....
     
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  8. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about the Bermondsey bit, but until 1836 the Archdeaconry of Berkshire (basically the whole county) was part of the Diocese of Salisbury. There's more about this on the Berkshire FHS site at
    Code:
    http://www.berksfhs.org.uk/cms/About-Berkshire/about-berkshire.html
    - about half - two-thirds of the way down. It means that Berkshire researchers also need to check records that have found their way to archives in other counties, depending on date and type of record.
     
  9. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Given that on his marriage record to Dinah CHAPMAN, John WARD states that he was of St Olave's Southwark, Southwark might be a good starting point in looking for records. Bermondsey seems to come under the general auspices of Southwark and there is a baptism at St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey on 29 December 1736 (born 20 December) of a John WARD son of John & Thomasin WARD. Another possibility is a baptism at St John Horsleydown, Bermondsey on 7 September 1736 son of William & Mary WARD, Hatter.

    Unfortunately, there is a gap in the parish registers of St Olave, Bermondsey, between 1731 and 1770 - wouldn't you just know it!! However, there is a Richard & Dorothy WARD who baptised a daughter Katherine Maria at St Olave on 1 May 1727. Although having said that, there is a Richard WARD of Southwark on Ancestry's Apprenticeship Bonds of 1745 who was a Barber, so no connection to the clothing trade.

    I cannot find any likely Apprenticeship records for John WARD born c1736 in the clothing trade, but there is one a further generation back for a John WARD son of John WARD, Brewer, of Southwark, who was apprenticed in 1713 to a William HOWARD, Draper. Might be clutching at straws a wee bit here!

    Janet
     
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  10. Lusmum

    Lusmum Active Member

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    John may not have been the only child born but the only one to survive. So many stillbirth or deaths just after birth which never got registered. It wasn't until the 1911census that I found my grandparents had 8 children but only 5 lived.
     
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  11. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Thank you, I did not know that there were records missing from St Olave. I think it's very likely that John had a brother Stephen, whose birth I haven't found so far and a sister Jane. If they are siblings then at least I have an idea of their birth dates. It would be typical of my family to be baptised in the church with a gap!
     
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  12. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    The gap is in Ancestry's online parish registers of St Olave. Whether this applies to the actual parish registers held at the appropriate Archives, I don't know.

    I wonder if there is a family connection regarding the baptism at St Olave on 17 October 1726 of a John WARD son of Thos & Deborah WARD, Dyer?? At least there is a slight connection to the cloth trade.

    Janet
     
  13. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Thank you, I'll have to look into that
     

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