Does a cordwainer move that far?

Discussion in 'Cordwainers' started by annabel, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Peter Gely born about 1774 in Lympstone, Devon was I think the same Peter who was a cordwainer in Lympstone

    He married Mary Ash Fursey in 1796 in Stoke Damerel

    There is a newspaper report in 1804 of an apprentice who ran away from a Peter Gely cordwainer on Plymouth Dock

    Then around the 1810s his children all moved to Southwark and Shoreditch

    I can find nothing more on him apart from a 40 year old Peter Gely of Blackman Street, Southwark being buried at St George the Martyr, Southwark in 1815.

    I am not sure that I can be sure its him though. I have tried to find him in the directories to see if there was a cordwainer in that street but I haven't found anything.

    Does anyone have any ideas how I can get any more clues?
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    There is a Death Duty register that has Peter GELY listed (died 1815), with the name and address of the Administer as being Mary GELY of 122 Blackman Street.
    Blackman Street used to be the lower end of Borough High Street, which is in Southwark.

    It is in TNA's Wills and Probate, reference IR27/24 and this Guide may help.

    Now, a bit of pondering...

    If the family had moved to London, it would probably have been because of work. A successful cordwainer would probably have left a will, so that might be an avenue to chase down.
     
  3. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Ooh that looks good, thank you. Something to to look for when I get a chance to go to TNA.

    I thought there might be a will, but I haven't found the right Peter Gely
     
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  4. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    If tanners moved from Sussex to London & Ag labs from Sussex to London & allsorts from everywhere to wherever there was work... Why not a cordwainer whose wares were much needed.?
     
  5. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    My 3x gt grandfather moved from Lands End to London sometime before 1810. He was an ironmonger. I have wondered if the Napoleonic wars had anything to do with the move.
     
  6. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    My Thomas Hackworthy was a shoemaker in Exeter and he and his wife and at least one of his sisters moved up to Holborn in London in about 1815.
     
  7. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    Annabel I have had a quick look at PCC wills both on Ancestry and The Genealogist, there isn't one for this chap. The document Jan found is part of the Inland Revenue set which is an index of names as Jan says. Whether that would lead to an abstract of the Will I am not sure, but it doesn't look as though the actual Will has survived. Huncamunca knows far more than me about Wills, she might be able to say. There is another probate record for an earlier Gely in Lympstone (probate 1722) which might be your chap's father or grandfather :) that Will was proved at the Court of the Archdeaconry Exeter, so that one might exist.
     
  8. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    From the National Archives' catalogue, this volume (IR 27/24) is an index to administrations in the PCC, so that probably means that Peter died intestate. It's always worth checking details of letters of administration though, just in case there is some little nugget there.
    Sadly I'm afraid it probably doesn't survive. Probate records from various West Country church courts were all collected together at the Exeter Probate Registry after the civil system of probate was introduced in 1858. Unfortunately the Probate Registry was destroyed in the bombing of Exeter in 1942. Sometimes copies of these wills survive elsewhere, e.g. in bundles of deeds, or in notes made by earlier generations of genealogists, but most were lost forever. :(
     
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  9. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    That's interesting! I wonder if there was something going on at the time that made them both move at the same time, or it's just a coincidence. I'll have to research.

    Having looked at the guide, it seems there may be some death duty records to look at which could have some relevant info in. I have found quite a few miscellaneous Gelys, too many, and they seem to relate to each other at all at the moment, so I thought I would pin down this one first otherwise I will get lost :)

    EDIT: Thanks Huncamunca, that makes it clearer
     
  10. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    I knew you'd know Huncamunca - thanks.
     
  11. gillyflower

    gillyflower Always caring about others

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    We somehow expect our ancestors to remain in the same county - forever. :)Often it seems like they did so - but it also seems they had to follow the work. I had some who moved from Staffs to Lincs in the 1870's.
     
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  12. Bonzo Dog

    Bonzo Dog Still the Mad Scientist?

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    My shoemaker/cordwainer g g grandfather was born in Measham Derbyshire (now Leicestershire). He married in Liverpool, stayed there for a couple of years before moving to Stockport. From there it was back home to Measham, before moving "down the road" to Market Bosworth Leicestershire. Then to Atherstone Warwickshire, from where he moved to Birmingham via Measham. He also found time during his travels to father 7 children.

    He was just 42 when he died. Have yet to obtain a copy of his death certificate but would not be surprised to read the cause of death as exhaustion.:D
     
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  13. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    London and areas what are now known as Greater London were a magnet for people of all sorts of occupations, the wages and availability of work were generally better there.

    I have a Cordwainer ancestor, William Searles, who would have worked as a Cordwainer late 1600s to mid 1700s but he stayed put in the rural area of the Eastons Essex. He may well have had a monopoly in that part of Essex which would rule out Greater London where he might have experienced stiff competition had he gone there. Or of course he may have stayed for family reasons, his family had substantial properties and land around the Salings.
     
  14. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Yet another of my 1st cousins twice removed married a bootmaker born Newington, Surrey/London he ended his days in Suffolk! His wife having died in 1904 leaving him with 4 children aged 3-10yrs.
    His Family originally from Norfolk!

    One of these children died in Iraq in 1921. another name I didn't notice in the list of those whose names were mentioned at the Tower. Perhaps there was no Family left to so do. I'd lost sight of him in the masses other wise I might have done so, but wouldn't have wanted to tread on any toes more closely related than '2nd cousin once removed.'
    Oddly enough, the other lad -Navy-20yrs- drowned during enemy action & is buried at St.Heliers,1917. His 2nd christian name is the same as the surname of the relly I've just met from Paternal side of Family.
     
  15. Bonzo Dog

    Bonzo Dog Still the Mad Scientist?

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    By stark contrast with my Measham ancestor, a 3x cordwainer great grandfather lived his entire life in Middleton Warwickshire, as did one of his sons who followed in his father's footsteps (no pun intended!!). Both lived into their late 80's. Another cordwainer son moved to Walsall and only survived there a few years. :eek:
    The son who stayed in Middleton married the village butcher's daughter, while another son married a tailor's daughter. A daughter married the village blacksmith, so it looks like family discounts all round. :D
     
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  16. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Huncamunca can you advise me further? I went down to TNA today, and all there was extra on the index was an old vol and folio number. A nice man there directed me to some abstracts on microfilm in IR26 for intestate deaths, although he wasn't totally sure if this was the place, but I couldn't find him in 1815. Were these the letters of administration you were referring to or is there another kind of document? Confused :confused:
     

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