Elizabeth Carter, Headington, Oxon.

Discussion in 'Oxfordshire' started by vickym, Feb 14, 2015.

  1. vickym

    vickym Member

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    Elizabeth married Charles Cudd in Sept. 1862, in the Thame District, Oxon.

    She was born 1839/40 in the Headington District, Oxford.

    I have been unable to trace her in 1841/51/61/census

    Chalres Cudd lived variously in both Wheatley and Great Milton, Oxon.

    Can anyone assist with any information?

    Thanks

    Vicky
     
  2. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    1851 she looks to be in Oxford Workhouse in Headington district
    HO107, Piece 1727, Folio 509, Page 4
     
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  3. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Hi Vicky,

    I'm guessing you don't have Elizabeth's marriage certificate. Unless a member here has access to Oxfordshire marriages [there's a chance someone has] then you really need the certificate to learn Elizabeth's father's name.
     
  4. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    In 1871, if I have the correct Elizabeth, she is entered as Eliza Cudd born Wheatley with husband Charles and sons George 8, and Albert 1.

    I wonder if this is her in 1861? If so, it would explain why she can't be found in earlier censuses. Mind, that would put her born circa 1837, so maybe not her. You do need the marriage cert.

    Living Wheatley. RG 9; Piece: 889; Folio: 28; Page: 49
    Elizabeth Cooper 26, widow, Wheatley
    Joseph H Cooper 2
    Thomas J Cooper 5/12
    Eliza Carter 24, WIDOW, visitor, Wheatley
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
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  5. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    Mr Google is very good at this game.He tells me that Eliza Carter married Charles Cudd 29 Jul 1862 and she died 29 Sep 1923 in Great Milton. However of the 7 children listed as being from this couple, the first one,George William Cudd was b.29 Mar 1854 which, with a birth of 1840/41, would make her a bit young for her first child,but the Mealymoo discovery of a widow aged 24 above would give a birth for Eliza of 1837 and would fit. Loo and behold the same source that Mr Google has found also says that she was born 1837!
     
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  6. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Deaths Dec 1923
    Cudd Eliza age 85 Thame 3a 1069

    Which suggests a birth date circa 1838, the widow is now looking worth pursuing.
     
  7. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Following Eliza through the census returns she is consistent with Wheatley being her place of birth, however her date of birth changes.
     
  8. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Hmm! Not sure the online info is correct. According to the 1871 census George was born abt 1863 [assuming I have the right family, - it's the only Charles/Eliza Cudd I have found]
    There is: Births Mar 1863, George William Cudd, Thame vol 3a page 524

    There's no birth registration on FreeBMD for George William Cudd 1854 or thereabouts.

    I do believe Charles Cudd's and Eliza Carter's marriage certificate is the only reliable way to go forward.
     
  9. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Eliza Cudd and her sons Albert and George are buried together.

    http://www. dustydocs.
    com/link/30/33463/112421/monumental-inscriptions-gravestone-photographic-resource.html
     
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  10. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    This looks a very promising line of enquiry, Mealymoo. Looking at the 1851 census there are only a couple of Elizas of around the right age born in Wheatley, and fortunately they have quite unusual surnames: Eliza Gomm and Eliza Melony.

    An Eliza Gomm married in the Headington district in the September quarter of 1857. There are three other people with matching references: John Carter, George Clements and Martha Pickett. A tree on Ancestry has George Clements and Martha Pickett marrying one another, at Wheatley, so it does seem likely that Eliza Gomm married John Carter, and at Wheatley.

    I do agree how crucial it is to get certificates to confirm that you are following the right line, vickym. A birth certificate for one of Charles & Eliza Cudd's children would give the mother's maiden name. The marriage certificate (or a copy of the information in the parish register, if they married in church) would confirm whether Eliza had been married before and give her father's name.

    At some point, Oxfordshire parish registers are expected to become available online. I haven't heard any updates on this project for a long time though. In the meantime Oxfordshire FHS still sell transcripts of many parish registers on CD: see their website for details.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  11. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    1851 census of Wheatley (HO107/1727, folio 45, page 25) shows the following family living in the hamlet of Cuddesdon:

    Robert GOMM Head Mar 46 Mason Oxon Wheatley
    Martha do Wife Mar 36 Berks Frilford
    George do Son U 15 do Abingdon
    Eliza do Daur U 13 Sunday Scholar Oxon Wheatley
    Sarah do Daur 11 do do
    John do Nephew 4 do do

    This would fit in pretty well with the information already found above. If this does turn out to be the correct family for your Eliza CUDD, it would appear from the Oxfordshire Marriage Index that the GOMM family go back quite a way in Cuddesdon, so purchasing the parish register transcript for Cuddesdon/Wheatley could prove beneficial to you.

    Janet
     
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  12. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Google finds a reference to this Robert Gomm on the English Traditional Music Archive website, as a pipe and tabor player. Some biographical notes on him and his family (including baptism of daughter Eliza/Elizabeth at Wheatley in 1838) can be found in the '1800-1810' PDF file here:

    http://www.
    etma.org.uk/musiciandownload.html

    This is the fruits of the labours of my friend Keith Chandler, who is evidently much better at getting around to writing up his research than I am!
     
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  13. vickym

    vickym Member

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    Hi everyone and thanks. Wow what a lot of info to digest. A coincidence arises as my Grandmother was a Gomm, Minnie Maria Gomm 1873-1951 who married Frederick James Cudd in 1898 (born 1869 in Great Milton the next village to Wheatley) . My mother being Nellie Cudd 1908-1983 born London 1908.
    My mother Nellie Cudd was sent from London abt 1918 (Aged abt 11) to Great Milton to look after her aged G/mother Eliza Cudd. Eliza taught Minnie about Dress making ( Eliza is on 1851 census in the Cooper H/Hold as visitor, occupation Dress maker)
    Having difficulty in getting my head around this. Am I on the right track as an assumption still to be clarified, that Eliza Gomm married a John Carter who died early and as Widow Carter married Charles Cudd?
    Thanks, from a puzzled Vicky.
     
  14. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Hi Vicky, sorry we have confused you! Yes, from the bits and pieces reported above I would say it seems likely that - though still young - Eliza had been married and widowed before she married Charles Cudd. As Mealymoo discovered, there is a young widow Eliza Carter who matches what you know about Charles Cudd's wife. Who was this young widow? Eliza Gomm does seem to fit the bill well, in terms of age, birthplace and marriage to a Mr Carter. This is really only guesswork though, and you'll need to see details of Eliza Carter's marriage to Charles Cudd to prove or disprove our possible version of events.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  15. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    I've just found a tree on Ancestry which has Charles Cudd married to Eliza Gomm, a widow, previously married to John Carter. If you have an Ancestry sub Vicky, it would be worth you contacting the tree owner - the name of the tree is 'Biel Family Tree'. I've had a quick glance and it seems a well sourced tree, for example it has in ref to Eliza Gomm.
    Marriage to Charles Cudd
    1862 29 Jul Age: 24
    St. Mary's Church, Great Milton, Oxfordshire
    (Eliza Carter - Widowed) Witnessed by George Fisher & Sarah Gomm.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2015
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  16. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Hi Vicky, have you found a birth reference for Minnie Maria Gomm born 1873? I ask as I can't find one; the Biel tree on Ancestry has, and it is confusing .........
    Marriage to Frederick James Cudd
    1898 20 Mar Age: 24
    Bethnal Green, Middlesex
    Minnie Maria married under the name 'Goom' which could have been her mothers maiden name 'Gomm'
    The marriage can be found on Ancestry in the "London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921" collection.

    St James the Great, Bethnal Green, 20 Mar 1898
    Minnie was aged 24, spinster, father Charles, deceased,
    Frederick age 29, bachelor, father Robert.
    Witnesses: William and Mary Ann Jones

    If that is your grandparents' marriage I wonder why Minnie married as a Gomm! Sorry if I'm further complicating things and perhaps you have your grandparents marriage certificate?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2015
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  17. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Oops, I got timed out before having the chance to edit my above post. The tree owner has Minnie Maria Cudd daughter of Charles Cudd and Eliza Gomm, the confusion is why did she marry as Gomm/Goom and not Cudd!
     
  18. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Ooh-err, Mealymoo! Minnie Maria "Gomm" does look very much like Minnie Maria CUDD (birth registered 1873), doesn't she? The plot thickens.
     
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  19. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    It thickens further Jane if you start to trace Minnie's husband Frederick!
     
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  20. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Re: Frederick Cudd.
    1871, Great Milton. Charles and Eliza are living a few doors away.
    RG10; Piece: 1429; Folio: 40; Page: 20
    Robert Tombs 55, head, carpenter, Wheatley
    Sarah Tombs 48, wife, Great Milton, [blind]
    Jane Cudd 20, servant, Great Milton
    Frederick Cudd 2, boarder, Great Milton
     
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