English family of Lyng

Discussion in 'Norfolk' started by mugwortismy cat, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Following on from my thread on "Robert Dowe of Toft Monks", and my thread on "Charles Hammond" Elizabeth Dowe's husband. I want to look at the family of Rhoda Beckett English who married James Dowe.

    Rhoda was born 1833 in Lyng, bapt. 8 Sep, to James and Sarah (I suspect Sarah's maiden name to be Mann, but I've not found the marriage)

    James and Sarah had a ridiculous number of children, and I keep finding more. I need to show that an Edward bapt. children in Lyng, wife Sarah Ann(e) Chapman, was also one of theirs. But I keep getting distracted :rolleyes:

    James and Sarah had a few children baptised in Weston Longville between 1824 and 1827. There is a slight gap before the first in Lyng in 1831, so I guess they could have been elsewhere in between.

    Anyway, I'll get to that Edward eventually.

    children of James and Sarah English:
    • James Mann English
      1824–1824
    • Mary Ann English
      1825–
    • Martha Bennett English
      1826–
    • James Mann English
      1827–
    • Thomas English
      1831–1831
    • Thomas English
      1832–
    • Rhoda Beckett English
      1833–1900
    • William Beckett English
      1837–
    • Maria English
      1837–1920
    • Charles English
      1839–
    • Francis Fitt Mann English
      1841–
    • Anna English
      1843–
    • Albert English
      1843–
    • Walter English
      1844–1906
    • Horace English
      1846–
    • Lydia English
      1849–1932
    • Julia English
      1850–1935
    so back to Rhoda, she first married widower William Aldous, a hatter, 10 Oct 1871 at St John Walham Green London, he had a son from his previous marriage.
    Rhoda was widowed the following year, and Sep 1875 in Wangford RD (probably Beccles) she married James Dowe. At some time between 1871 and 1881 James had stopped farming and become a tailor and hatter, possibly taking on William Aldous's business?. They had no children. Rhoda died 1 Jan 1900 with a personal estate of £2061, which was more than her first husband left.
    If I keep plugging away at the Lyng parish records, trying to sort out all those siblings, can I ask if anyone can find James English 's marriage to Sarah?
     
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  2. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    See, already found another I'd missed: George 1835
     
  3. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    James ENGLISH married Sarah MANN on 26th March 1822 in Norwich according to the Bishops Transcripts courtesy of Family Search.

    Double checked Lydia's birth registration and it confirms the mother's maiden name of MANN. :)
     
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  4. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Not only was it a big family, but they made the newspaper.....
    Norfolk Chronicle 6th May 1905
    A PROLIFIC FAMILY.— Mr. W. B. English, now of London, formerly of Lyng, has favoured us with the enclosed details of the family which his father, Mr James English, had by his wife, Sarah, formerly Mann. The whole 19 children attended their father's funeral, a thing I should think hardly ever paralleled.— Walter Rye.
    The Family of James and Sarah English of Lyng in the County of Norfolk.
    Edward Mann English, born August 19th, 1822.
    Mary Ann English, born January 2nd, 1825.
    Martha Bennett English, born January 12th 1826.
    James Mann English, born April 22nd, 1827
    John Mann English, born January 3rd 1829
    Frederick English, born April 17th, 1830
    Thomas English, born August 17th, 1832
    Rhoda Beckett English, born September 1st, 1833
    George English, born May 15th, 1835
    William Beckett. English, born Aug. 22nd, 1836
    Maria English, born August 3rd, 1837
    Charles English, born December 31st, 1838.
    Francis Fitt Mann English, born Sept. l7th, 1840
    Albert English, born June 17th. 1842
    Anna English, born July 9th 1843
    Albert English, born June 7th 1842
    Walter English, born June 18th 1844
    Horace English, born September 6th, 1845
    Lydia English, born June 5th. 1849
    Julia English, born July 4th 1850
     
  5. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Wow {-(^^)-}

    thank you both :D
     
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  6. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I've just pulled out a few more snippets (thanks to the BNA) which may help you on your way. I haven't put them in any order......
    Norfolk News 6th December 1879
    November 26, at Islington, London, John Tanner, second son of the late James English, Brompton, London, and grandson of the late James English, farmer, of Lyng, Norfolk, aged 19 years.

    Eastern Daily Press 11th September 1875
    September 5, at Yew Tree Farm, Lyng, Albert, son of the late James English, aged 33.

    Eastern Daily Press 30th November 1878
    November 25, at No. 6, Winterslow Terrace, Britannia Road, Fulham, London, John Mann, son of the late James English of Norfolk, aged 49.

    Norwich Mercury 25th November 1885
    On the 10th inst, at John’s Church, Fulham, London, by the Rev. W. E. Batly, Rev. A. P. Rainbird, of Chesham, Bucks, only son of Major Rainbird, Woolwich, and grandson of the late Henry Palmer Rainbird, surgeon, of Mattishall, Norfolk, to Agnes, only child of the late John Mann English, of Fulham, and granddaughter of the late James English, farmer, Lyng, Norfolk.

    Norfolk News 12th June 1880
    June 4, at Lyng, Edward Mann, the eldest son of the late James English, farmer, of the above place, aged 67.

    Norfolk News 16th October 1875
    September 30, at St Michael’s Church, Beccles, by the Rev. F. F. Tracy, James Dowe, farmer, Gillingham, Norfolk, to Rhoda Becket Aldous, of Beccles, and third daughter of the late James English, farmer, Norfolk.

    Norfolk News 4th March 1876
    February 10, at the residence her brother, Hartford, Kent, of inflammation of the lungs, Martha Bennett, second daughter of the late James English, farmer, Lyng, aged 50.

    Norfolk News 25th November 1882
    November 20, at Lyng, Sarah, relict of the late James English, farmer, of the above place, aged 76.

    Norfolk News 7th February 1880
    English—January 27, in his 45th year, after a long and painful affliction, George English, at his residence, Queen Street, Ipswich, sixth son of the late James English, farmer, Lyng.

    Thetford and Watton Times 12th May 1883
    On the 3rd inst., at Forncett St Peter, in the 51st year of his age, Thomas English, grocer, fifth son of the late James English, farmer, of Lyng, leaving a widow and nine children to mourn their irreparable loss.

    Norfolk News 3rd September 1864
    On Thursday last, at Lyng, by the Rev. W. Millet, rector, Mr H. Miles, Walworth, London, to Maria, fourth daughter of the Mr James English, farmer, Lyng.

    Norfolk News 12th May 1860
    On Saturday last, aged 59, after long and painful affliction, Mr James English, for many years a farmer at Lyng, in this county, leaving a widow and 19 children to lament their loss.

    Norfolk News 21st April 1860
    Saturday last, at St Margaret's Church, Westminster, Mr J. M. English, son of Mr. James English, Lyng, in this county, to Miss Agnes Fry Hooper, late of Lynmouth, Devonshire.

    Norfolk Chronicle 27th October 1866
    On the 9th inst., at Lvng, Anna, fifth daughter of the late Mr James English, farmer, of the above place.
     
  7. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Blimey :eek:

    That's a lot to get stuck into. Thank you very much
     
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  8. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I like to keep you occupied ;)

    Have fun :D
     
  9. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Ann i don't wish to complain, especially as you've found me a Frederick I didn't have, but Albert seems to be twice in your list with slightly different dates ... Which I think leaves us one child short, unless I've made a mistake in my copying ..
     
  10. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    There seem to be 20 children in Ann's list, so with Albert in there twice, it would total the 19 as in the newspaper report. :)
     
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  11. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    It's a good reminder never to believe what you read in the papers!:)

    The baptism register reads:

    Lyng Baptisms: 1842
    Albert English son of James and Sarah, late Mann, living at Lyng, father's occupation - farmer.
    Born [May] 9th 1842, Baptised 12th May 1842.

    Interestingly there are 2 entries in the 1875/1876 Lyng Burial register:

    Burial 9th September 1875 , Albert English, living at Lyng, aged 33.

    and further down the page...

    Burial 6th May 1876, Edward Mann English, living at Lynn, aged 20 (sic).
     
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  12. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    you are right, I conflated James and John :rolleyes: .... I did say it might be my fault :oops:
     
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  13. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    And then....

    Lyng Baptism register:

    Edward Mann English son of Edward and Sarah Ann, late Chapman, living at Lynn, father's occupation - Labourer.
    Born May 27th 1855 Baptised June 3rd 1855
     
  14. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    This Edward Mann is, I believe, son to the other Edward Mann who died 1880,


    EDit: as you have just confirmed ;)
     
  15. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    Lyng Burial register:

    Edward Mann English, residence - Lyng, buried 8th June 1880, aged 57.
     
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  16. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I was worried for a minute (only for a minute :D) but the newspaper article does have Albert twice with the 7th and the 17th June :rolleyes:
     
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  17. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Well, I shall have to accept all those birth dates with a pinch of salt.

    William Beckett has reported his birthday as 22nd Aug, but it seems he was baptised on the 14th :p

    If his is wrong how can I trust what it says about his siblings. And Flook already pointed out Albert's birthday is actually his baptism date.

    It's still a marvellous article to have though :)
     
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  18. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    I did some work on Lyng burials after 1822 but pre- June 1880 - it seems as though there were even more babes born. I'm afraid I ran out of steam with listing them but I'll probably have another go at them tomorrow.
     
  19. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thanks Flook, I have now worked through all the baptisms I noted from Family Search and know which are James/Sarah and which are Edward/Sarah Ann(e)

    I've got some burials, mostly without ages, but I think I know who they all are, especially with help from Ann's clippings :D

    I'm exhausted, please don't wear yourself out on my behalf ... they are only in-laws of my gggg uncle
     
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  20. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I suspect that the list was a test of memory - poor chap had so many brothers and sisters he just gave his best guess for most of them :rolleyes:
     
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