Following on from my thread on "Robert Dowe of Toft Monks", and my thread on "Charles Hammond" Elizabeth Dowe's husband. I want to look at the family of Rhoda Beckett English who married James Dowe. Rhoda was born 1833 in Lyng, bapt. 8 Sep, to James and Sarah (I suspect Sarah's maiden name to be Mann, but I've not found the marriage) James and Sarah had a ridiculous number of children, and I keep finding more. I need to show that an Edward bapt. children in Lyng, wife Sarah Ann(e) Chapman, was also one of theirs. But I keep getting distracted James and Sarah had a few children baptised in Weston Longville between 1824 and 1827. There is a slight gap before the first in Lyng in 1831, so I guess they could have been elsewhere in between. Anyway, I'll get to that Edward eventually. children of James and Sarah English: James Mann English 1824–1824 Mary Ann English 1825– Martha Bennett English 1826– James Mann English 1827– Thomas English 1831–1831 Thomas English 1832– Rhoda Beckett English 1833–1900 William Beckett English 1837– Maria English 1837–1920 Charles English 1839– Francis Fitt Mann English 1841– Anna English 1843– Albert English 1843– Walter English 1844–1906 Horace English 1846– Lydia English 1849–1932 Julia English 1850–1935 so back to Rhoda, she first married widower William Aldous, a hatter, 10 Oct 1871 at St John Walham Green London, he had a son from his previous marriage. Rhoda was widowed the following year, and Sep 1875 in Wangford RD (probably Beccles) she married James Dowe. At some time between 1871 and 1881 James had stopped farming and become a tailor and hatter, possibly taking on William Aldous's business?. They had no children. Rhoda died 1 Jan 1900 with a personal estate of £2061, which was more than her first husband left. If I keep plugging away at the Lyng parish records, trying to sort out all those siblings, can I ask if anyone can find James English 's marriage to Sarah?
James ENGLISH married Sarah MANN on 26th March 1822 in Norwich according to the Bishops Transcripts courtesy of Family Search. Double checked Lydia's birth registration and it confirms the mother's maiden name of MANN.
Not only was it a big family, but they made the newspaper..... Norfolk Chronicle 6th May 1905 A PROLIFIC FAMILY.— Mr. W. B. English, now of London, formerly of Lyng, has favoured us with the enclosed details of the family which his father, Mr James English, had by his wife, Sarah, formerly Mann. The whole 19 children attended their father's funeral, a thing I should think hardly ever paralleled.— Walter Rye. The Family of James and Sarah English of Lyng in the County of Norfolk. Edward Mann English, born August 19th, 1822. Mary Ann English, born January 2nd, 1825. Martha Bennett English, born January 12th 1826. James Mann English, born April 22nd, 1827 John Mann English, born January 3rd 1829 Frederick English, born April 17th, 1830 Thomas English, born August 17th, 1832 Rhoda Beckett English, born September 1st, 1833 George English, born May 15th, 1835 William Beckett. English, born Aug. 22nd, 1836 Maria English, born August 3rd, 1837 Charles English, born December 31st, 1838. Francis Fitt Mann English, born Sept. l7th, 1840 Albert English, born June 17th. 1842 Anna English, born July 9th 1843 Albert English, born June 7th 1842 Walter English, born June 18th 1844 Horace English, born September 6th, 1845 Lydia English, born June 5th. 1849 Julia English, born July 4th 1850
I've just pulled out a few more snippets (thanks to the BNA) which may help you on your way. I haven't put them in any order...... Norfolk News 6th December 1879 November 26, at Islington, London, John Tanner, second son of the late James English, Brompton, London, and grandson of the late James English, farmer, of Lyng, Norfolk, aged 19 years. Eastern Daily Press 11th September 1875 September 5, at Yew Tree Farm, Lyng, Albert, son of the late James English, aged 33. Eastern Daily Press 30th November 1878 November 25, at No. 6, Winterslow Terrace, Britannia Road, Fulham, London, John Mann, son of the late James English of Norfolk, aged 49. Norwich Mercury 25th November 1885 On the 10th inst, at John’s Church, Fulham, London, by the Rev. W. E. Batly, Rev. A. P. Rainbird, of Chesham, Bucks, only son of Major Rainbird, Woolwich, and grandson of the late Henry Palmer Rainbird, surgeon, of Mattishall, Norfolk, to Agnes, only child of the late John Mann English, of Fulham, and granddaughter of the late James English, farmer, Lyng, Norfolk. Norfolk News 12th June 1880 June 4, at Lyng, Edward Mann, the eldest son of the late James English, farmer, of the above place, aged 67. Norfolk News 16th October 1875 September 30, at St Michael’s Church, Beccles, by the Rev. F. F. Tracy, James Dowe, farmer, Gillingham, Norfolk, to Rhoda Becket Aldous, of Beccles, and third daughter of the late James English, farmer, Norfolk. Norfolk News 4th March 1876 February 10, at the residence her brother, Hartford, Kent, of inflammation of the lungs, Martha Bennett, second daughter of the late James English, farmer, Lyng, aged 50. Norfolk News 25th November 1882 November 20, at Lyng, Sarah, relict of the late James English, farmer, of the above place, aged 76. Norfolk News 7th February 1880 English—January 27, in his 45th year, after a long and painful affliction, George English, at his residence, Queen Street, Ipswich, sixth son of the late James English, farmer, Lyng. Thetford and Watton Times 12th May 1883 On the 3rd inst., at Forncett St Peter, in the 51st year of his age, Thomas English, grocer, fifth son of the late James English, farmer, of Lyng, leaving a widow and nine children to mourn their irreparable loss. Norfolk News 3rd September 1864 On Thursday last, at Lyng, by the Rev. W. Millet, rector, Mr H. Miles, Walworth, London, to Maria, fourth daughter of the Mr James English, farmer, Lyng. Norfolk News 12th May 1860 On Saturday last, aged 59, after long and painful affliction, Mr James English, for many years a farmer at Lyng, in this county, leaving a widow and 19 children to lament their loss. Norfolk News 21st April 1860 Saturday last, at St Margaret's Church, Westminster, Mr J. M. English, son of Mr. James English, Lyng, in this county, to Miss Agnes Fry Hooper, late of Lynmouth, Devonshire. Norfolk Chronicle 27th October 1866 On the 9th inst., at Lvng, Anna, fifth daughter of the late Mr James English, farmer, of the above place.
Ann i don't wish to complain, especially as you've found me a Frederick I didn't have, but Albert seems to be twice in your list with slightly different dates ... Which I think leaves us one child short, unless I've made a mistake in my copying ..
There seem to be 20 children in Ann's list, so with Albert in there twice, it would total the 19 as in the newspaper report.
It's a good reminder never to believe what you read in the papers! The baptism register reads: Lyng Baptisms: 1842 Albert English son of James and Sarah, late Mann, living at Lyng, father's occupation - farmer. Born [May] 9th 1842, Baptised 12th May 1842. Interestingly there are 2 entries in the 1875/1876 Lyng Burial register: Burial 9th September 1875 , Albert English, living at Lyng, aged 33. and further down the page... Burial 6th May 1876, Edward Mann English, living at Lynn, aged 20 (sic).
And then.... Lyng Baptism register: Edward Mann English son of Edward and Sarah Ann, late Chapman, living at Lynn, father's occupation - Labourer. Born May 27th 1855 Baptised June 3rd 1855
This Edward Mann is, I believe, son to the other Edward Mann who died 1880, EDit: as you have just confirmed
I was worried for a minute (only for a minute ) but the newspaper article does have Albert twice with the 7th and the 17th June
Well, I shall have to accept all those birth dates with a pinch of salt. William Beckett has reported his birthday as 22nd Aug, but it seems he was baptised on the 14th If his is wrong how can I trust what it says about his siblings. And Flook already pointed out Albert's birthday is actually his baptism date. It's still a marvellous article to have though
I did some work on Lyng burials after 1822 but pre- June 1880 - it seems as though there were even more babes born. I'm afraid I ran out of steam with listing them but I'll probably have another go at them tomorrow.
Thanks Flook, I have now worked through all the baptisms I noted from Family Search and know which are James/Sarah and which are Edward/Sarah Ann(e) I've got some burials, mostly without ages, but I think I know who they all are, especially with help from Ann's clippings I'm exhausted, please don't wear yourself out on my behalf ... they are only in-laws of my gggg uncle
I suspect that the list was a test of memory - poor chap had so many brothers and sisters he just gave his best guess for most of them