Ezekiel Christmas Wilson and Elizabeth Lazell

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by mugwortismy cat, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Ezekiel is another of my Saxlingham Nethergate, Norfolk bunch; born Christmas Day (obviously) 1845, the birth reg and baptism [19 Dec 1847] don't have the Christmas middle name but he starts using it as an adult. Son of Thomas, a bricklayer, and Charlotte (nee Kemp).

    At some point he moves to London, where he is a bricklayer like his father.

    1851 and 1861 in Saxlingham Nethergate
    1871 where he is enumerated as Henry, in Silverton (Silvertown?) Essex
    1881 - 1911 in Camberwell (1901 enumerated as Ernest)

    I cannot find an actual marriage, but his wife is Elizabeth Lazell, born Cranham, Essex (1844)

    Children, from census and GRO indexes have been identified as:

    1) Henry LAZELL b Dec 1863 in Romford -- though he uses the name Wilson all his life
    2) Beatrice Clarissa b Dec 1866 in Poplar
    3) Alice Christiana b Dec 1868 in Kensington, died Dec 1869 MEOT
    4) Adelaide b Dec 1870 MEOT, died Dec 1872
    5) Ellen b Dec 1872 in Poplar, not traced after 1891
    6) Thomas John b Dec 1874 Poplar, died Mar 1875
    7) Ada Mary b Mar 1876 in Poplar, not traced after 1901
    8) Hannah Mary b Mar 1878 in Greenwich
    9) Emma Jane b Mar 1880 in Greenwich
    10) Ezekiel Christmas b Mar 1882 in Camberwell
    11 & 12) Frederick - b Dec 1885 in Camberwell, share birth reg ref
    William Henry - but William has no mmn recorded, but is recorded as son in 1891, not found after
    13) Jessie Beatrice b Dec 1888 Camberwell - no mmn recorded though she is enumerated as daughter - died Dec 1896

    As you can see I have 13 children, but the 1911 census states 11 children, 6 living, 5 died.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  2. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Ada Mary married Victor Robert Johnson March qtr 1902 Camberwell 1d 1107
    in 1911 at 15 Worlingham Road, E Dulwich
    RG14 PN2464 SN342
    Daughter Doris May born 1906 March qtr Camberwell 1d 850 (GRO confirms mmn Wilson)
     
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  3. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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  4. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    I'm still puzzled by the two that have no mmn recorded. they could possibly be grandchildren rather than children, but I will have to think about birth certs at a later time.

    That would get me to 11 children, but try as I might I have 7 living children, unless Henry isn't counted as one of the children of the marriage, that would leave me 6 definitely living, but still leave the overall count as incorrect.

    And why claim a number of years married that allows Henry to be seen as legitimate, he's long since left home anyway. Was someone's counting just a bit off?

    Anyway this family is definitely still a work in progress. I think i just needed to get it all written down in a more coherent manner than my scraps of paper :D
     
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  5. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    The Essex Baptism Index has Henry's bap recorded
    6/4/1864 at Romford St Edward the Confessor
    interestingly his name is Henry Hammond Lazell (mother Elizabeth, father blank),
    perhaps a nod to who his father was;)
     
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  6. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Ah Thank you I hadn't found that. I'm counting him as part of my family, since he always used the name Wilson, but given the gap between him and his sister i do think Ezekiel probably wasn't the father
     
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  7. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Any chance a Will or Obit will give further details?
     
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  8. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Probably, I haven't quite got that far though. Trying to just tidy what I do have. Actually I think I'm having a break first :)
     
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  9. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Trying to identify Elizabeth Lazell, i have several censuses to confirm place of birth as Cranham, Essex which is in the Romford registration district: I've found the following births and marriages in the appropriate time frame

    Births
    Sep 1839

    Lazell Elizabeth Romford 12 214 mmn BROWN
    Dec 1841

    Lazell Elizabeth Romford 12 191 mmn WALLEN
    Dec 1843

    LAZELL Elizabeth Romford 12 215 mmn ROGERS

    Marriages
    Jun 1859

    Lazell Elizabeth Romford 4a 103 x not my Elizabeth
    Dec 1860
    Lazell Elizabeth Romford 4a 139 x not my Elizabeth
    Sep 1864
    Lazell Elizabeth Romford 4a 129
    Dec 1864
    Lazell Elizabeth Romford 4a 154


    Most of the censuses have Elizabeth born c 1844, though 1901 has 1843 and 1911 has 1842, so I don't feel able to rule out any of the births so far.

    If Elizabeth was actually married to someone else this could explain why I can't find a marriage to Ezekiel. We can rule out the first two marriages since Elizabeth had her illegitimate son Henry in Dec 1863.

    Marriage 7 Aug 1864 Rainham Elizabeth (c1844) d/o William to Owen Dear
    Marriage 15 Oct 1864 Great Warley Elizabeth (c1844) d/o William to John Cook

    Census for 1851 and 1861, (I can only identify two of the three Elizabeths)

    born Cranham c1841, living in Upminster, d/o John & Ann, with a sibling called Henry; Baptised 31 Oct 1841 Cranham
    born Upminster c1844, living in Rainham, d/o William & Harriet; Baptism 4 Feb 1844 Upminster

    Ancestry trees are nonsensical, they go with the daughter of John and Ann but have her born in 1843. I feel that my Elizabeth must be the daughter of John and Ann, born Dec 1841. Writing this all out has helped clear my mind of any doubts, so I hope someone else agrees :D:p
     
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  10. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hmmm, I cannot actually find Elizabeth in 1861, though I realise that what I typed above suggested I did.
     
  11. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    How likely do you feel it is that someone living in Camberwell (Peckham) might have a death registered in the Croydon area?
    I'm kind of used to Wandsworth peeps ending up in Croydon, and Peckham isn't that far. He was a bricklayer, so might have travelled there to work, or been taken to a hospital there.

    Since his last child was born c1904 and a school admission for a son in 1907 names the mother, I am assuming he died between these dates. Nothing in Camberwell matches (not even outside of these dates); I extended the search to London and found a death in Islington, which I feel is too far, and the age is a couple of years out; so then I tried Surrey which is when I found the Croydon one.

    If anyone wants to try and find something better, it is for Henry WILSON (aka Henry Hammond Lazell) born in Dec 1863
     
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  12. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    The Henry Wilson death 1905 Islington belongs to resident of 46 Barnsbury Road, Islington so not him.
     
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  13. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    Burial 13 Dec 1905 Camberwell Old Cemetery, Forest Hill Road, Honor Oak, London, SE23 0NQ upload_2019-8-23_22-21-8.png

    Probate: Wilson,Henry of 6,Heaton Road, Peckham, Surrey died 5 December 1905 at Croydon, Surrey Administration London 8th January to Nellie Louise Wilson widow effects £10
     
  14. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Oh, thank you so much :D that is definitely him
     
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  15. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    Elizabeth Lazell b.1843 Romford Registration District vol 12 page 215 mmn Rogers.

    Baptism St Laurence, Upminster Feb 4th 1844 parents William & Harriet Lazell.

    Marriage William Lazell & Harriet Rogers Sep 25th 1841 St Pancras Church, William is a widower.

    Census 1861 RG09 Piece 1072 Folio 121 Page 8 FMP has surname as Lagell but is definitely Lazell on original, William is age 58 and Harriet is 40 which could be accounted for by William being previously married.

    I think this all fits together nicely but unless the marriage of Ezekiel to Elizabeth is found there is no way of proving this is the correct Elizabeth
     
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  16. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if you have the burials of both Ezekiels' if not, here they are
    1ST one 1912 Camberwell Old Cemetery.

    Second one 1939 Camberwell New Cemetery, Brenchley Gardens, Southwark, London, SE23 3RD Ezekiel 1912.jpg Ezekiel 1939.jpg
     
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  17. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    Blast! thought I had tied in the Elizabeth born 1841 (parents John and Ann), now not so sure - unless Ada Wilson b 1877 Bow Common is enumerated twice in the 1881 census :(
     
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  18. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    John Lazell & Ann Wallen married All Saints, Cranham 20 Apr 1829.
    They are still are in the frame as are William & Harriet but without that vital Ezekiel and Elizabeth marriage it's a difficult call.
     
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  19. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    Burial of Emma Wilson b.1886, wife of Ezekiel b.1882. Burial 1959
    Camberwell New Cemetery Emma Wilson.jpg
     
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  20. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    Now this is interesting.
    1861 census piece 1068 folio 83 page 10 Romford.
    There is a Henry Hammond b.1842 Servant working with a Mary Lazell b. 1836 Cranham. Mary is not a sister of Elizabeth Lazell but could be a cousin and say's to Elizabeth* There's a nice lad called Henry who I work with, I could get him to meet with you" or somethind like that. Who knows
    FMP have Mary as Lavell
     
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