found the burial but not the death - help please.

Discussion in 'BMD Certificates' started by erica, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. erica

    erica New Member

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    I have found a burial record for William Crann (my grandad's great uncle). He was buried on 8th April 1838, Leeds St Peter, aged 20 and lived on Portland Street, Leeds.
    I wanted to send for a death certificate but am unable to find him in the death index. Can anybody help please?
    Thanks for your time,
    Erica.
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    I have not been able to find the death entry either. :(

    However, there is one for a Robert CRANN, Leeds, volume 23, page 226 for the March quarter of 1838. This would fit with a burial on 8th April if the death was at the end of March. So, the question is: could William also have had another name of Robert?

    But, please bear in mind that these were the early days of registration and it is feasible that, although it was a requirement, the death might not have been registered.
     
  3. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    An Act passed in 1874 made B M & D registration in England become compulsory in 1875, not sure if it covered other parts of the UK.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  4. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I have looked at the original GRO images for March and June 1838 and the only Crann I could find was Robert Crann that Daft Bat found.

    Edited to show correct year :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2014
  5. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    There were loopholes in the system and some deaths went unregistered in the early days of civil registration.
     
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  6. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Hi Erica - was this from the actual parish register or was it a transcription? The reason I ask is that sometimes, parish clerks made notes in burial register margins that do not necessariily get transcribed.
     
  7. erica

    erica New Member

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    Hi,
    I think it was from the actual parish register, I found it on Ancestry in West Yorkshire, England, Deaths and Burials 1813-1985 and it gave all the details mentioned above.
    His baptism was recorded in the same way (West Yorks, England, Births and Baptisms 1813-1910) but I did manage to find the birth registered as well.
    The Crans weren't fussy with the spelling of their name so he was born Cran but buried Crann!
    I can't find Robert on my tree but there is no record of a second name so don't think it is the same person. I could send for his death certificate but it would be an expensive way of finding out if it is wrong!
    Thank you for looking,
    Erica.
     
  8. Sue036

    Sue036 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Erica and welcome to TopDog! I am a bit confused. Birth registrations in England didn't start until 1837 so someone who died at the age of 20 in 1838 couldn't have had a birth registration? Perhaps this is a terminology problem though, by registration I mean civil registration by a Registrar of Births, Marriages and Deaths. You may be referring to another sort of birth record, such an an entry in the parish register alongside the baptism record?

    Can we take it that you have looked at the images of the original records on Ancestry and not just the transcripts?
     
  9. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Quite possible also that a listener made an error in registering or writing in either burial reg or Parish register. If William had a 2nd name he was known by, easier than ever for mistakes to be made.
     

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  10. erica

    erica New Member

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    Hi,
    I am also getting confused!!
    Yes, I have looked at the images of the original transcripts and there is no doubt that it is the right William. I also found his birth registered in England Select Births and Christenings 1538-1975.
    I am fairly sure he didn't have a second name - nobody in the family did and there was no other significant Robert for him to be named after. Also, William attended the "Richard Kemplays Accademy for Young Gentlemen". I have his exercise books dated 1931 and his name in these was simply William Cran.
    Because of this connection I am curious to know why he died so young.
     
  11. Sue036

    Sue036 Well-Known Member

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    OK, on Ancestry I can see both the transcripts and the images of the original parish register entries. The baptism is in the West Yorkshire Births and Baptisms and the burial is in the West Yorkshire Deaths and burials. The baptism entry also gives a date of birth. I can also see the baptism date (not the birth date?) in the Select Births and Christenings database. That database contains copies of data held on FamilySearch and these are transcripts of the original records. In this case the data is a transcript of the same parish register entry that is in the West Yorkshire Births and Baptisms, so it is just another copy of the same thing and not an additional record. Does that make sense?

    I was confused because you referred to the parish register entry as a "birth registration". When talking about "registrations" we usually mean the civil records of births, marriages and deaths that, in England and Wales, began in 1837. Sorry, I am easily confused! :)
     
  12. erica

    erica New Member

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    Thank you for taking the trouble to look. It was my mistake - I should have made it clear I was talking about Parish records and I had no idea what the "Select" database was so at least you have cleared that up for me! It's very frustrating not to be able to find important pieces of information! I presume William's death was never registered. Will plod on with my tree regardless!:)
     
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  13. Sue036

    Sue036 Well-Known Member

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    Just to let you know that I have also checked for a death registration for William Crann in the local Register Office indexes on the YorkshireBMD site and I cannot find him there either. I have searched for "vague" surname matches. I am doubtful that the Robert listed is the same man because I noticed a baptism for a Robert Crann when I was looking up William's baptism. The only way to be certain would be to order the certificate, however, which I agree is an expense probably not warranted on the basis of the information we have right now. The local RO indexes do show that the death of Robert Crann was registered in the Leeds Southeast sub-district. It would be worth checking whether William or any of his family lived in the area covered by that sub-district? That might help to decide whether or not the death registration for Robert is likely to be relevant?

    Sue
     

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