Frampton, Dorset - Parish registers

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by mugwortismy cat, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Well, as promised, or threatened, I have started on the Frampton Baptism register.

    Problem 1: see image
     

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  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    August 5
    Robert son of, born June 25
    John & Mary
    Loveless (?)
    Frampton
    Servant
    Wm Butler, Vicar

    The addition underneath seems to start "carrier to Mr M?????? at C????? June 9th 1826" although why it would say such a thing, I have no idea. :confused:
     
  3. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Goodness me it's only just 9am and I am already experiencing grief and weirdness. Posting, uploading and editing attempts didn't go to plan ...

    Anyway, re: the image above, I can read the baptism info and the minister's name (for a change) but what is the sentence written underneath ... "carried to the visitation at ????? June[?] 9th 1826"

    The baptism I have posted the image of is dated 5 Aug 1825 and the next baptism is 5 Feb 1826, so I thought the month was probably January but it looks more like June; and looking back through the register the previous similar note I have transcribed as "Carried to Visitation June 11th 1825". I can provide a snip of that if needed.

    There is a Problem 2 : an occasional baptism is carried out by a Revd. Trollope, the first initial is either a J or a T, one of the entries describes him as Vicar of Donn Frome --- I have never heard of Donn Frome, although the river Frome runs through Dorset, and there is Frome St Quinton, Frome Vauchurch etc. According to the Clergy database I can locate a John Trollope and a Thomas Trollope active in Dorset in the early 1800s. Thomas was at Frome Vauchurch, so in the transcript I have gone with T rather than J --- BUT I cannot find so far any reference to Frome Vauchurch having Donn Frome as an alternative name. Can anyone help with this?
     
  4. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thanks for looking Jan, unfortunately I had to post before I could finish so I didn't properly explain -- I am sure the addition is to do with the visitation of the Bishop and taking/sending the transcript of the Baptisms (as in the Bishop's Transcripts), though I may be wrong in this.
     
  5. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    The Lives and Memoirs of the Bishops of Sherborne and Salisbury by Rev. Stephen Hyde Cassan (1824) (on Google Books) has in its list of subscribers
    Rev. T.D. Trollope, Rect. of Down-Frome

    (and John Trollope, Esq., Down-Frome)
     
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  6. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Thanks Huncamunca,

    that doesn't really help me decide which one, though :confused: . If only he would sign himself TD (I believe its Thomas Daniel, if memory serves) then I could be sure ...

    and Down-Frome, leaves me equally unenlightened o_O

    I need a cup of tea, then try Mr Google again :oops:
     
  7. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Brainwave, the C????? in the image must be Cerne (Abbas), do you think?
     
  8. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Ok I find reference to Down Frome in the Frome Vauchurch 1861 census, so I was on the right track there ...
     
  9. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Perhaps you can find another signature somewhere else to help you decide. Would think TD was more likely as he is described as Rector of Down-Frome in the 1824 list I mentioned.

    Sorry, I thought I was being helpful :(
     
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  10. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Oh no you were being helpful and I didn't mean to sound ungrateful, it was more that I was trying to express my frustration at my own ignorance of my home county!! sorry!!

    I think it is safe to assume that Down-Frome is a part of Frome Vauchurch parish, and since TD is described as Vicar of Down-Frome in your source and Vicar of Frome Vauchurch in the Clergy database, then it is TD Trollope.

    [using Vicar instead of Rector I know is inaccurate]
     
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  11. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Have been trying (unsuccessfully so far) to find an itinerary for a Visitation by the Bishop or his representative at this time. Have to go out now, but will try again later.
     
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  12. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    August 5th Robert son of John & Mary Loveless born June 25, servant. ? Butler, Vicar carried to the visitation as Curate ....1826
    is what I read somewhat too late in the piece. Have notice similar remarks at the end of the ? year by resident curate.
     
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  13. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hi Wendy, thanks for taking a look, I have toyed with the idea that C???? says Curate, but Wm Butler consistently signs himself as Vicar so it seems odd that in that note he would call himself Curate ... I have come across two or three other similar notes between 1813-1826 which simply say "Carried to the Visitation" with a date
     
  14. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    Given that there's an Up Cerne and Nether Cerne (with Cerne Abbas between them) in the valley of the River Cerne, I wonder if something similar might have applied to the Frome valley: Frome St Quintin is upstream, so could it sometimes have been called Up Frome? Frome Vauchurch is downstream, and it appears may sometimes have been called Down Frome.

    As for the C.... word in the register entry, I think it may be Cerne - presumably the venue for the visitation. The amount of ink in the horizontal line above looks to me as though it matches the signature above better than the comment below.
     
  15. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hi Mr K

    that had occurred to me now that I know it is DOWN and not DONN. It's not a term that I had ever come across before, but I know very little about the Frome valley, which is terrible really, though I am slightly more familiar with the Cerne.

    thank you, I have amended the Donn to Down, now feel confident in my decision of T. Trollope, and have entered the C???? as Cerne, it's as good as I can make it and the transcript can move on :)
     
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  16. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I have in my hot little..a Reverend gent who in one personal family baptism is listed as Joseph Francis Fearon rector of here, Vicar of there & Curate of this Parish, occupation Clerk.
    Page signed J.F.F. curate.
    1795
     
  17. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Hello, I have found another stumbling block ...

    Image 1 is a baptism from 1837

    framptonR1.jpg

    I have transcribed this as ROUTELL; when I was trying to find the family on a barely functioning Ancestry last night I did manage to see that they have the name as ROUSSELL

    Image 2 is a baptism from 1838, which I am sure is the same family

    framptonr2.jpg

    I still think the name is ROUTEL(L), and Routell is what FreeBMD have for John Adolph's birth.

    BUT just in case, is that b-like symbol 1. a 'b', 2. some strange symbol I don't know for 'ss', 3. a miswritten 't'.

    Given that it looks nothing like a 't' really, I have currently transcribed the name as ROU?EL. Is that the best approach?

    I confess that I haven't tried Ancestry yet today, having had so many issues with it yesterday, so I don't know how they have transcribed the second baptism.

    Thanks for looking

    Christel
     
  18. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you're right about it being ROUTEL with a badly-written "t", but often the rule is that you transcribe what you see, so maybe ROU?EL is best. Having said that, I can't see an "ss" in it - though I've just looked at Ancestry and they have ROUSSEL for this one as well.

    For what it's worth, the 1841 Census has what looks like this family as ROUTELL (HO107/284/25 fo6 p6), though the first names have undergone a bit of variation.
     
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  19. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    ArthurK, thank you! I'm sure that is them on the census (Ancestry working again:)), poor Clarinda now a plain Caroline, Eliza 'upgraded' to Elizabeth ...

    Re: the baptism transcripts on Ancestry, I can't understand how they get Roussell:confused:, there isn't even a Russell family in the Parish at this time to have led them astray.

    I'll leave the name as Rou?el in my transcript
     
  20. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Please, I would love to have an interpretation of the name of the first witness for this 1836 marriage ???????? HILL .... I have no idea so far

    wiitness.jpg
     
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