Frederick Edward Cooper

Discussion in 'British Army' started by Elma, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Elma

    Elma Well-Known Member

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    I am looking for any information about a Frederick Edward Cooper when he served in WW1. There appear to be no pension or service records.

    Frederick Edward Cooper was born Frederick Edward LLoyd in 1892 Battersea. Not sure why he used the name Cooper. he served in the 7th Royal West Surrey Regiment nos 9889. Frederick got wounded in 1918 and got a devastating gun shot wound to the face from which he stayed in hospital over a year.
    Are there any hospital ship records or can anyone suggest anything to help piece together his service record.
    With thanks Amle
     
  2. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    What's the source of your information?

    I can see a medal card for a Frederick Cooper G/9889 but it doesn't mention a Silver War Badge which would be expected in the circumstances you describe. I can't see him in the SWB roll either.
     
  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I saw this quickly after googling:WW1 Hospital ship records military.

    http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/125.html

    ["There are admission and discharge registers for six general hospitals, one stationary hospital, six casualty clearing stations, five field ambulances, one ambulance train, one hospital ship and ten medical establishments in the United Kingdom."] 4th paragraph.
     
  4. Elma

    Elma Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Peter and Wendy. My source is very detailed hospital records. I will look at that site Wendy.
    Thanks again Amle
     
  5. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Amie, what other information do you have about Fred?
    His parents?
    There are several Coopers and Lloyds in the area about the same date.
    Was he a Cooper or a Lloyd in 1901 and 1911?

    It might help us if we go back a bit in time, his name change might just be relevant to your query.
     
  6. Elma

    Elma Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mutters
    Thank you
    I am helping the son of Frederick Cooper and although he knew his father well is also a little confused about the name changes. He said the family did it because of business at the time. They were in the florist trade and lived in Battersea. A birth registration has never been found and it is said that as Fred was one of at least 14, there was never time! Some of the siblings were registered though. We have a baptism on Oct 9th 1892 at Battersea St Peter which records his birth in September. Parents Frederick Edward and Anne Elizabeth Lloyd. Fathers occupation Florist and Residence 108 Livingstone Road. We then have the family on the 1911 census at 113 Livingstone Road, Battersea SW. The family are recorded as Lloyds. The rest of the information I am trying to work out. Frederick reverted back to the surname Lloyd after the war.​
    Amle​
     
  7. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    What exactly are these records? Which hospital? What name was the patient using?

    We need to know this because we need to understand why the information you have from these "very detailed hospital records" doesn't tie in with the information we can see. If we understand this, we stand a fighting chance of working out where to look next.
     
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  8. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    Did he marry as Cooper or Lloyd? What are the details of the marriage?
     
  9. Elma

    Elma Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your response Peter.
    Frederick Lloyd married in Wandsworth in 1921 and he married as Frederick Lloyd, the name he continued to use.
    His hospital records state Cooper also known as Lloyd and include photos. I do not have them to hand at this point and can not recollect the hospital name except it was in the South East.

    Frederick's parents married on 21 May 1889 at the Parish Church Battersea.
    The details are
    Frederick Edward Lloyd. 21. Bachelor. Lab. 111 Bridge Road. Frederick Samuel Lloyd. Cab Driver.
    Hannah Elizabeth Hull. 21. Spinster. 111 Bridge Road. Father Albert Hull. Painter
    AMLE
     
  10. PeterG

    PeterG Well-Known Member

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    It's a mystery to me why there's no mention in the medal index card or the medal roll of the award of a Silver War Badge which was awarded to all men discharged as a result of wounds received.

    The regimental web site says that their historic documents have been deposited at the Surrey History Centre. I wonder if they might have anything that might help.
     
  11. Elma

    Elma Well-Known Member

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    Will try there. The Surrey History Centre is in my birth town so well worth a visit. Thanks AMLE
     
  12. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    To aid others helping Amle I think this may be the family referred to:

    Lloyd family in 1911 RG14PN2213 SN207 at 113 Livingstone Road, Battersea
    Frederick /Head /42 /1869 /Florist /Westminster
    Hannah /Wife /Married 23 years / 42 /1869 /Florist
    Emily / Daughter / 21 /1890 /Florist
    Frederick / Son / 19 / 1892 /Florist /Westminster
    Ellen /Daughter /16 / 1895
    Louisa / Daughter /13 / 1898
    Beatrice /Daughter /11 / 1900
    William /Son / 9 / 1902
    Edward W / Son / 6 / 1905
    Margaret /Daughter / 3 / 1908
    Harry / Son /1 / 1910
    All born Westminster.

    The baptism of Frederick is at St. Peter's Battersea 1892 along with his sister Anna Elizabeth born Dec 1890. Mother is also shown as Anna Elizabeth.

    To confuse the issue even further there is another Frederick Edward Lloyd born 1888 in The Borough, Southwark. His parents are Frederick and Annie Elizabeth and he also has a sister a couple of years older called Annie E.
    They are both in the 1911 so they are not the same person but the family names are very close.

    I cannot yet find how the name Cooper fits into the scheme of things.
     
  13. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Lloyd family in 1901 at RG13/453//182/68 at 90, Livingstone Road, Battersea
    Frederick /Head / 33 /1868 / General Dealer
    Hannah E / Wife / 33 / 1868
    Emily / Daughter / 12 /1889
    Ellen / Daughter / 6 / 1895
    Louisa / Daughter / 5 / 1896
    Infant / Son / Male / 0 (10 DAYS)
    All born Battersea.

    Presume the infant is your Fred. This census was on the 31st March. ;)
    Edit: The baby son is William, teach me to presume!
    Where is your Fred at 9 years old?
     
  14. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Emily married William Henry Stenning at St Peters on Aug 3 1913.
    Frederick Edward Lloyd and Ellen Lloyd were witnesses.

    No real clues there other than if it was her brother as a witness, he was using the name Lloyd then.
     
  15. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Although a well known site is transcribing the child as William, the original does say infant.
    I wonder if it is actually Beatrice Catherine being as she was baptised April 15th 1901 and born March 17th 1901?

    Still looking for Fred....
     
  16. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    This is probably the explanation for the two names.
    I think your Fred's dad is the step son of James Cooper.

    1881 Census RG11/653/140/9/ at 70 Dashwood Road, Battersea
    James Cooper / Head / 1845 / Labourer / Marylebone
    Hannah Cooper / Wife / 1845 / Westminster
    Susan Lloyd / Daughter / 1864 / Westminster
    Frederick Lloyd / Son / 1868 / Westminster
    Jane Lloyd / Daughter / 1872 / Westminster
    Edward Lloyd / Son / 1873 / Westminster
    Mary Ann Lloyd / Daughter / 1875 / Westminster
    Emma Cooper / Daughter /1880 / Battersea
    Elizabeth Cooper / Daughter / 1 month / Battersea
     
  17. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    There are banns for a James Cooper (bachelor) to a Hannah Hoare Lloyd (widow) called 22 and 29th Oct and 5 Nov 1876 at Lambeth St. Mary.
     
  18. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    That's me done for tonight. I'm off to bed.
    Not answered your original question Amle, I am sorry to say,
    but there is still time yet. ;)
     
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  19. Elma

    Elma Well-Known Member

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    Wow Mutters
    I wasn't sleeping well, I must have been worrying.
    You have worked hard. Thank you so much. I have now got to go and digest everything you have found, it looks good.:) I wonder where Frederick was on the 1901 census, at only eight I would think he should be at home. I wonder if he was with his grandmother and later decided that his name was Cooper Well lots to think about.
    You have been very kind. Do I need to look at the two 1911 census again for Frederick or is it obviously two different families? Cant wait to work out what you have found
    Amle
     

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