Frederick Perl/Cooper

Discussion in 'Illegitimacy' started by sandra ness, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. sandra ness

    sandra ness New Member

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    You’ve been very helpful. Thankyou. Would appreciate any more info you might discover.
     
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  2. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I can find an Elizabeth L Clarkson on the 1911 census in West Ham born 1891 in Bromley, parents William G (FMP transcription - looks like J on the original) b1867 a Stevedor and Louisa b1868 Bulven Fen(?) Essex - RG14 PN9488 SN127 - with siblings Charles b1895, Ethel 1896 and Ernest 1898.
    They say married 21 years 5 children born 4 living
    Without the marriage cert (it is not on Ancestry:() it is only a probable.

    William James Clarkson married Louisa Riley Dec. qtr 1899 Poplar 1c 1144
    Elizabeth Louise Clarkson birth reg Dec qtr 1890 Poplar 1c 534 mmn Riley:)
     
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  3. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Pure speculation.

    MollyMay found the brothers and sisters of Lilian Gertrude in post #7 and a possible marriage for their parents in post #18.

    The only way to be sure would be to get a copy of Lilian's marriage certificate and find out who it says her father was. Then if her father is Thomas L Bell it would be a good idea to get a copy of his marriage to Elizabeth Clarkson.

    There is a Thomas Leslie Bell born in 1888 in Poplar. His mothers maiden name was Cartlidge (sic)

    Marriages Jun 1882
    John Henry BELL and on the same page is Rosetta CARTLEDGE
    Poplar - 1c - 1130

    The family can be found on the following censuses

    1891 census
    RG12, Piece number 330, Folio 67, Page 14
    Pekin Street, Poplar, London

    John H Bell, Head, 1862, London, Middlesex, Bricklayer
    Rosetta Bell, Wife, 1861, London, Middlesex
    Gertrude Bell, Daughter, 1884, London, Middlesex, Scholar
    Edith Bell, Daughter, 1885, London, Middlesex, Scholar
    Leslie T Bell, Son, 1889, London, Middlesex
    Rosetta V Bell, Daughter, 1886, London, Middlesex

    (Notice on the above census Thomas Leslie is going by the name Leslie)

    1901 census
    RG13, Piece number 353, Folio 37, Page 19
    9, Pekin Street, Poplar, London

    John Henry Bell, Head, 1862, Ollerton, Nottinghamshire, Bricklayer
    Rosetta Bell Wife, 1861, Poplar, Middlesex
    Thomas Leslie Bell, Son, 1891, Poplar, Middlesex
    Walter Cyril Bell, Son, 1896, Poplar, Middlesex
    Hildia May Bell, Daughter, 1900, Poplar, Middlesex

    1911 census
    9 Pekin Street, Poplar, London

    John Henry Bell, Head, 1862, Notts, Bricklayer
    Rosetta Bell Wife, 1861, Poplar, London
    Thomas Leslie Bell, Son, 1888, Poplar, London, Iron Founder Labourer
    Walter Cyril Bell, Son, 1896, Poplar, London, None
    Hilda May Bell, Daughter, 1900, Poplar, London, At School

    There is a death for a Thomas L Bell in West Ham in 1955 aged 67. This would give a birth year of 1888.

    On Ancestry someone has a Thomas Leslie Bell born 6th May 1888 to parents John Henry Bell and Rosetta Cartledge.

    It says he married Elizabeth Louise Clarkson on 7 Sep 1913, in St. Lukes Church, Victoria docks, West Ham.

    It says they had a son Walter T Bell in 1921.
     
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  4. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Marriage of John Henry Bell and Rosetta Cartledge 20th May 1882 in Poplar

    upload_2018-4-6_6-0-59.png
     
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  5. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    John Henry Bell died in 1927 in the Poplar registration district aged 64

    Rosetta Bell died in 1932 in the Poplar registration district aged 71
     
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  6. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    On the censuses John Henry Bell says he was born c1862 in Ollerton, Nottinghamshire. On his marriage he says his father was Thomas Bell a bricklayer.

    There is this baptism:-

    John Henry BELL
    Baptism: 19th October 1862, St Giles, Ollerton, Nottinghamshire
    Father: Thomas BELL
    Mother: Mary
    Person abode: Ollerton
    Father occupation, Bricklayer
    Register entry number 413
     
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  7. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    On the 1871 census it says John H was born 1863 it's always +/- a year.

    His parents are Thomas and Mary.

    On this census he has a brother Walter born 1862.

    Walter was registered in Southwell registration district in Jun quarter 1861. His mothers maiden name was STEADMAN. Southwell covers the parish of Ollerton.

    The first child, George, was born c1858 according to the census. He was actually registered in December 1857.

    There is a marriage for a Thomas BELL to a Mary STEADMAN

    Marriages Mar 1857
    Thomas Bell to Mary Steadman
    Southwell - 7b - 333
     
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  8. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    1891 census for the Clarksons RG12/328/82/54
    Levan Road, Bromley, Poplar

    William Clarkson b1867 Stepney - stevedore
    Louisa - wife b1868 Dagenham Essex
    Elizabeth - daughter b1891 Bromley

    1901 Census RG13/346/136/52
    132 Leven Road, Bromely, Poplar

    William J Clarkson b1867 Stepney - stevedore
    Louisa - wife - 1869 Essex
    Elizabeth - daughter b1891 Poplar
    Charles - son b1895 Canning Town
    Ethel - daughter b 1896 Poplar
    Ernest - son b1896 Poplar
    Charlotte Jaggard - visitor b1883 Poplar - waitress
     
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  9. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    1881 census for the William J Clarkson
    RG11/501/39/5 - 5 Wellington Street, Bromley Poplar

    Joseph C Clarkson b 1841 St George's Middlesex - labourer
    Eleanor - wife - b1845 Limehouse
    William J - son b1867 Stepney
    Eleanor A - dau b1869 Poplar
    Susannah - dau b1873 Poplar
    Elizabeth A - dau b1876 Bromley
    Ernest A - son b1879 Bromley
    Lydia Woodhouse - widow - lodger b1829 Limehouse - shirtmaker

    From the GRO index birth of William Joseph* Clarkson December qtr 1866
    Stepney 1c 498 mmn Somerscales

    * when he marries his second name is entered as James

    This is the marriage cert for Joseph Colling Clarkson and Eleanor Summerscales upload_2018-4-6_8-10-5.png


    Sandra - there is now an awful lot of information for you to go through and digest - when you are ready, let us know and we can go further back with the families, if you so wish:)
     
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  10. sandra ness

    sandra ness New Member

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    Hi
     
  11. sandra ness

    sandra ness New Member

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    Wow Molly I am really impressed where you’ve found so much information. I don’t seem to be able to find anything. I’m very new at this. I will go through. I have seen Clarkson before. I’ll get back. Thankyou again star.
     
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