I would give the biggest hug imaginable to anyone who can break down this brick wall for me! My gg grandfather, William Gardner was, according to all the census entries from 1861 to 1901 (excepting 1881 in which I have never been able to find him) born somewhere in London in about 1832. One (1871) states SE London. His marriage certificate in 1857 states that his father was Samuel Tims Gardner, a Cutler. I have never been able to find a baptism for William in spite of searching every parish register in the whole of London. There is a marriage of a Samuel Tims Gardner to a Mary Ann Ditcher at St. Anne's, Soho in 1804 and there are three children possibly born to this couple, one of which actually says the father is Samuel Tims Gardner, the other two, only Samuel Gardner, all baptised at St. Clement Dane over the next few years. There are lots of Gardner's baptised and married at St. Clement Dane in preceeding years. My only other likely find is that of an Eliza Gardner, born in 1831 at Frying Pan Alley, Spittalfields, with father Samuel a Cutler and mother Mary. If this is indeed the sister of my William, and if this Samuel is actually Samuel Tims Gardner, I cannot believe that Mary is the same Mary as Mary Ann Ditcher as she would have to be at least in her mid 40's by then, and I don't think too many women were still having children at that age (although I am open to be corrected on this assumption). What do other forum members think about the possibility of this being the same Samuel Tims Gardner, or does anyone think that there is more than likely another generation between him and my William? Any suggestions would be more than welcome as this has been a problem for at least 20 years and I despair of ever finding the answer.