Discussion in 'Royal Navy & Royal Marines' started by Nabean, Nov 25, 2018.
That's a difficult one - Henry/Terry Dier??
You're doing better than me, Janet. I can't even have a stab at it.
I'm not sure it is a signature, and wondered if it might be Xmas 25.
I don't think it's a picture of St Luke's, which used to be the Bradford workhouse. It was used as a military hospital during WW1, after which it became England's first municipal general hospital.
The handwriting looks educated - could it be by one of the doctors? (cf your post #11 above)
Just to add to the above, and after looking a bit more closely at the building in the background of the picture of the doctors(?) in post #11, is there some similarity with the Bradford workhouse/St Luke's Hospital buildings, as seen on the following page?
I'm thinking particularly of the colour picture about a third of the way down the page, showing the main block from the north. Note the rounded windows at first floor level, with smaller squarish ones above.
I'm thinking that one of the hospital entrances might have adopted that same design as on the main building... could this been a sketch looking out at Bradford from within, rather than looking in on St. Lukes?
The archway in the sketch must be a good 30 feet high. I know workhouses were meant to be forbidding, but they were also pretty utilitarian, and I doubt they'd have spent that kind of money on such a feature, complete with portcullis.
The style looks wrong to me too - St Luke's is a kind of classical, whereas this is more gothic (pointed arch), and it looks to me to have a bit of a Mediterranean air to it.
Intrigued by the Bradford connection, I've been looking in the 1925 Medical Directory at Ancestry to see who was on the staff of St Luke's then. The following are listed, and I've looked in their biographies for details of military service:
W Wrangham - late Lt-Col RAMC, Off. Command. War Hosp, Bradford
WH Thompson - late Maj RAMC
BH Slater - Maj RAMC
B Hughes, DSO, Maj RAMC, T; publications relating to war surgery
C Mackenzie- late Temp Maj RAMC; Off i/c Surg. Div. 14 Gen Hosp, BEF (this appears to have been in Wimereux, France)
FW Goyder - Temp Hon Capt RAMC
WF Rawson - (no mention of military service)
WL Lodge - ? (= WO Lodge, Temp Surg-Lt, RN?)
WE Hayburn - (no mention of military service)
The hospital list included a WL Lodge, but this looks like a mmistake as the alphabetical list has no-one of that name. The nearest was a WO Lodge in Bradford, whose speciality matched the one given in the hospital list - he's the one who was in the RN. (I didn't make a note, but a few of them had honours such as an OBE, presumably awarded for war service of some sort.)
Anyway, that's a long way of asking: do any of these names match the signatures in the album?
That’s what I thought, it just doesn’t look English to me. I also think it could say Xmas with a number - maybe 21 - so the picture was drawn by an unknown person, who maybe worked at St Lukes and had either visited the unknown place, or had copied the image from a book......and had drawn it with Best Wishes at Christmas 1921.
I haven't studied the second album in detail, but off the top of my head, I don't recall seeing those names. I'll get back to you tomorrow.
Sadly, none of those names match, although I seem to remember seeing
'C Mackenzie' in my research on the other album, as there were quite a few doctors who were in the RAMC ('Lives of the First World War website' thread).
Decipherable names in this album:
C.H.M (the artistic one!)
K.(?) H. Hemmings (Chief Officer H.M.T. Aronda)
L.H. Williams (fourth officer)
W. Cox Moore (?)
E.S. Wilkinson (2 Q.R. Queen's Regiment?) 16.05.19
M. Butter (?)(3 B.G.H. British Gordon Highlanders?) 21.10.18
W.E.White (Lt. Col. 1A) 09.05.19 - he features in the other album, too.
J.S.(?) Wallace (R.E.I.W.T. Dock Yard Basra
Edith Taylor (Basra) 04.05.19
Randolph C. Morley 19.04.19
S.C. Cafflin (?) (Capt. 1 A.R. aH' R.E. Royal Engineers?) H.M.T. Aronda
I spent time lying awake last night thinking about this sketch. The arch is huge and imposing, and has so many steps... it must, then, be a well-known feature of a town or city. But - where? I have waded through stock images of gateways, arches and barbicans. The conclusion I have arrived at, is, simply, that it may not exist anywhere except in the artist's imagination.
My daughter lived in Bradford for a year, just up the road from St. Luke's.
Sorry if my comments were the cause of this
I spent a few minutes looking too, though possibly not as diligently. My thoughts took me to Spain and places such as the Alhambra and Alcazar palace, as I think there's a Moorish look to it. I wonder if any of the ex-military/naval doctors can be linked to HMT Aronda and her ports of call?
@Nabean - re-reading your posts in the Lives of the First World War thread (your first one is here) and in this thread, I gather you have two autograph albums, one which belonged to Nurse Dora Frances Townsend, and the one that this sketch is from.
Was this second album Dora's as well, and if not, do you know whose it was?
It was Dora's, too.
She must have given them to my grandmother, or left them to her in her will. I just wish the contents could be published in some form, as they are such a fantastic record of times past.
Would it help if I did a media album for both?
There must be some descendants out there, maybe not Dora's, but her brother's/sister's.
From the nursing registers at Ancestry, it looks as though Dora was living in Bromborough, Cheshire in 1925. (Sticking with my reading of 'Xmas 1925' - I know others read it differently.)
I also thought both words began with 'X' but looking at the word 'Hospital' the letters look the same. from me just out of bed-almost.
There are only about 20 pages with entries in the second album (whereas the first one is full: some 90 pages!), and the ones that are dated are from 1918/9.
I tried 'St. Luke's Hospital', in 'images', and an old postcard of the one in Chicago came up! Amazingly, it was built in the Gothic Revival style, the colour of the building is rather like the colour of the sketch, and there is a high arch with 'sticky out' bits at the bottom, and steps, just where the carriage is.
I may be barking up the wrong tree, of course, or just barking!
Sorry, I forgot the link!
Separate names with a comma.