Handwriting: John or Thos?

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by Stafford, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Could Ann Leonard's husband be Thos and not John as transcribed? The name is second from the bottom. image.jpg
     
  2. Doug

    Doug Administrator. The Main Man. Staff Member

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    I am unable to determine. However, in 1871 at RG 10 Piece 3704 Folio 10 Page 14 the same family has the head recorded as Thomas.
     
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  3. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Same here, Doug.

    I'm assuming your census sheet is from Ancestry, Stafford. I had a look on another well known site and the image is clearer, and have to say it definitely looks more like John than Thos. However, a consideration has to be: head of Leonard family filled in his census sheet, the enumerator had difficulty reading his writing, and recording what he thought he saw wrote John.
     
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  4. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Intuition suggests it should be Thomas based on previous census details. However, I've lost Thomas's 'brother' John. According to John's wife, Hannah, he is still alive in 1881 but where I can only guess? The family appear to move between Congleton and Derby. Could he be living with his sister-in-law? In which case I can't find Thomas.
     
  5. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Ooh, well in that case we need to be looking for both John and Thomas.;)

    Give us some info Stafford. Do you have a census ref for John before 1881?
     
  6. Doug

    Doug Administrator. The Main Man. Staff Member

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    What is the age difference between the two brothers. The chap in 1881 appears consistent with the age in 1871.
     
  7. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Not ignoring your post, Stafford, but it's after 2.00am here in UK and I must hit the pillow. I'll look by tomorrow and see if I am able to add anything to your query. Good luck :)
     
  8. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Cheers Mealymoo and Doug, thanks, I really need to activate and do my weekly cleaning! I shall add details later.
     
  9. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    John Leonard married Hannah Webster in 1852 in Derby Derbyshire.

    His daughter Eliza was christened in Congleton Cheshire in1855. At the time they were living in Royle St. Royle St was occupied by Irish immigrants working in the silk industry.

    In 1861 they were living in Congleton Cheshire. As well as Eliza, they had two sons, John b. 1857 in Derby and James b. 1860 in Congleton. Father John's place of birth is Congleton Cheshire. RG9/2610 f. 101 p. 36.

    The family appear to have been missed on census night in 1871 because I cannot find them anywhere.

    In 1881 Hannah is possibly a patient in an infirmary in Derby. RG11/3395 f139 p.30. Son James is also living in Derby with his uncle Richard Webster. Daughter Eliza is married to Henry Faldon and living in Buglawton, Cheshire. There is no sign of John senior or junior in 1881.

    Reaching a dead end with John. I decided to take a closer look at Thomas Leonard who was living in the same lodging house as a John Leonard in 1851. Both Thomas and John were born in Ireland. HO107/2167 f.400 p..55. They may/may not be brothers.

    Thomas b.1830/31 married Ann Carter in Congleton in 1852. In 1861 and 1871 they were living in Congleton. The 1881 census is the one I was querying in post #1. I am still to find Thomas in 1891/1901.
     
  10. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Can I ask if James (in 1901) is the one married to Mary, he is a drover, born 1860 Congleton with children Alice 1888 and May 1898?
    RG13/3215, Folio 143, Page 32

    Probably is because in 1885 there is a marriage for James Leonard to Mary Ellen Webster at St. Peter's Derby.

    At the moment, I cannot seem to find anything you have not already found. :(
     
  11. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    In 1871 there is a John Lenord, born 1857 in Cheshire.
    He is a 14 year old servant living in the Lovett household at Davenham Green, Leftwich. I believe that is only about 14 miles from Congleton.
    RG10/3696/36/16

    Cannot prove he is yours but he is a possible to put on the side.
     
  12. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Eliza married Henry Foden 16th Aug 1874, her father is entered as John Leonard a Silkworker, So presume he was still alive in 1874.
     
  13. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    This fellow might be worth looking at in 1881.
    John Leonard, age 25 (1856), a brick maker, born Cheshire which is crossed out and replaced with Derby, Derbyshire.
    Living at 60 Bromley St, Congleton, Cheshire with the Harvey family.
    RG11/3533/101/16

    The interesting part is that he is a widower. (at 25 years old!!)
     
  14. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Marriage: St Michael Macclesfield, 8th Sept 1878.

    John Leonard, 22yrs, bachelor, Labourer, living Macclesfield, father: John (Spinner).

    Phoebe Foden 25yrs, spinster, living Macclesfield, father Henry Foden (Spinner)

    Witnesses: John Leonard and Ellen Harvey.

    (I think Phoebe was a witness to Eliza's marriage) I'll go back and check.
     
  15. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    And an Ellen Harvey was a witness to his first marriage. I have found his 2nd marriage and will post in a mo.
     
  16. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Marriage: St Michael Macclesfield, 28th May 1882.

    John Leonard, 25yrs, widower, Labourer, Macclesfield, father: John (Silk Weaver)

    Agnes Lavinia Davenport, 25yrs, spinster, Macclesfield, father: George Henry Davenport (Silk Weaver)

    Witnesses: Arthur Ball and Anne Davenport.
     
  17. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Yes, Phoebe was a witness to the marriage.
     
  18. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Deaths: Dec qrt 1878, Congleton, 8a/218

    Phoebe Leonard age 26yrs.
     
  19. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    There's also a George Henry Foden 10yrs, nephew, in the same household.
     
  20. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Oh well done Mealymoo.
    I passed Agnes Lavina somewhere on my searches, maybe in a census. ??
     

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