Havard - White Marriage

Discussion in 'BMD Certificates' started by Chimp, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I'm trying to find a marriage for Thomas Havard to Eliza White.

    They had a son Ernest Charles (Frederick) Havard who was born on 12th May 1883 in Bath Somerset.

    HAVARD, ERNEST CHARLES
    Mother's Maiden Name - WHITE
    GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 607

    1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
    8, Holloway Lyes Court, Bath Lyncombe and Widcombe, Bath, Somerset, England
    RG11, Piece, 2434, Folio 75, Page 43

    Thomas Havard, Head, Married, 26, 1855, General Labourer, Monmouth
    Eliza Havard, Wife, Married, 24, 1857, Laundress, Bath, Somerset
    Frank White, Brother In Law, Single, 16, 1865, Milkman, Bath, Somerset
    George White, Brother In Law, Single, 11, 1870, Scholar, Bath, Somerset
    + 1 border and 1 lodger

    1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Oolite Cottages, Prospect Place, Bath, Somerset, England

    RG12, Piece 1933, Folio 65, Page 31

    Thomas Heward, Head, Married, 42, 1849, Masons Labourer, Monmouthshire
    Eliza Heward, Wife, Married, 32, 1859, Laundress, Somerset
    Ernest Heward, Son, 8, 1883, Scholar, Somerset
    + 1 lodger

    1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Warwick Cottage, 1, Frome Road, Bath, Somerset, England

    RG13, Piece 2339, Folio 59, Page 20

    Tom Havard, Head, Married, 50, 1851, Bricklayer Labourer, Monmouth
    Eliza Havard, Wife, Married, 44, 1857, Bath, Somerset
    Ernest Havard, Son, Single, 17, 1884, Labourer (Fuller Earth), Bath, Somerset
    Dorothy Young, Adopted, 4, 1897, Bath, Somerset
    + 1 lodger

    1911 Census For England & Wales
    1 Tyning View Bloomfield Road Bath, Bath, Somerset, England

    RG14PN14701 RG78PN892 RD316 SD3 ED12 SN158

    Says married 29 years

    Thomas Havard, Head, Married, 61, 1850, Labourer General, South Water Monmouth
    Eliza Havard, Wife, Married, 52, 1859, Bath Somerset
    Dorothy Rosina Young, Adopted Daughter, 14, 1897, Corset Bower, Bath Somerset
    + 3 lodgers
     
  2. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Would a marriage between Eliza White and Thomas William Howard Dec 1883 at Gt Ouseburn be too far off the mark? :rolleyes:
     
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  3. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Not sure, Great Ouseburn to Bath is about 239 miles.

    Thomas's gives several years of birth for himself, ranging from 1849 to 1855, non of which are correct, he was actually born in 1846, so some 12 to 14 years younger than Eliza.
     
  4. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I wonder if Eliza was married before
     
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  5. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Never thought of that :rolleyes:
     
  6. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Or maybe they never actually married.
     
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  7. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    That wouldn't surprise me Sis. Strange that the mothers maiden name is given on the birth tho.
     
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  8. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I tried (unsucessfully) on another tack.
    Both Frank and George have a mmn of Arthur
    Ann Arthur married George white in 1861 but in 1871 RG10/2487/21/35
    where both boys appear with another child Emily born 1865 listed as children
    BUT Ann is 48 and George is 80:eek:
    No sign of Eliza
    It doesn't add up, but I have to leave it for now.

    The only Eliza White birth record I could find was 1857 Bath with a mmn Hayward:headbang:
     
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  9. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Well, I've tried everything but had no luck. I did find this in the Bath Chronicle of the 27th March 1926
    As he passed his mother's house, something told Ernest Charles Havard to go in, but he was in a hurry and did not. Later he learnt that his mother had died.

    I've found the deaths for all three of them, but that doesn't help you in the slightest :(
    Thomas Havard Dec qtr 1919 Bath 5c 597 aged 73
    Eliza Havard Mar qtr 1926 Bath 5c 686 aged 68
    Ernest C. Havard Mar qtr 1933 Bath 5c 847 aged 50
     
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  10. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    In 1861 George White, aged 70, is living next door to the property where Ann Arthur, aged 29, and her daughter, Eliza, aged 2 is living. George is stated to be married (no sign of a wife), whereas Ann isn't - RG9/1690/38/23. So, Eliza appears to be Ann Arthur's daughter.

    There is a marriage between a Thomas Howard and an Eliza Arthur in Bath in the Dec. qtr of 1879 5c 949 - what do you reckon?
     
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  11. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Do you mean Thomas Howard and Eliza Arthur?
    Yes, it’s Eliza Arthur. Well done Ann. Seems you have found them. :)
     
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  12. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Good sleuthing Ann!
     
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  13. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    Marriage by banns 8 Dec 1879, witnesses John Ellers and Mary Ann Hitchens. groom age 25, father Thomas Howard Coach builder. BRide age 22, father George Arthur Mason. Both gave address as 29 St Peters St.
     
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  14. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Brilliant Ann, thank you all for looking.
     
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  15. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    Groom signed bride made mark
     
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  16. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Brilliant Londoner, thank you.
     
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  17. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    Eliza Arthur birth registered 1859, Lansdown Bath, no mmn, from Bath BMDs
     
  18. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I have now been able to get the Banns and Marriage from the registers through Ancestry.

    Thank you all very much.
     
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  19. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    George White and Ann Arthur married in 1861 Bath register office or approved premises
     
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  20. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Well done Ann and Londoner - seems you have solved it - brilliant:)
     
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