Help dating photograph

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by mugwortismy cat, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    can anyone help me date this family group photo from one of my Albums

    it's my ggg grandmother's family but I don't know if she is in it, then I realised that she died in late 1901 so if it's after that she won't be

    I've only identified two people in the picture and it's impossible to guess their ages


    thanks
    Christel
     
  2. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Is this the one?
     
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  3. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    Hi Mugwort,

    I've just added another photo to my album, it's parents' and nine children, I think the clothes and hairstyles are very similar.........see what you think.
     
  4. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    This is not an easy one to date.
    The stand up collars of the men were before 1900 and the turned down with the knotted tie were after. The men are wearing both which I think puts it into the 1900s but not that far in.
    The white blouses and dark skirts of the ladies are about 1905 +/- a couple of years.
    I wonder why none of the ladies are wearing hats as it must be a wedding?

    The older lady with the glasses has the bouquet and the white flower, was it her wedding?

    The lady to the right of her has hair with a parting in the middle and I thought that was middle to later in the decade.

    I am struggling with this one, such a variety of styles, the young lad on the right looks very swish with his striped knitted tie.

    I am sticking my neck out but I do think it is after 1901.
     
  5. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    there is another photo that my (distant) cousin put on her Ancestry tree which is just the lady with the flowers and the gentleman next to her in the stripey suit, obviously taken at the same event --- she identifies them as Selim Dade and his wife Anna Mary. they married in 1872

    i did wonder if it was a wedding anniversary but whether it's in 1902 or 1912 i can't say

    my cousin didn't seem to know anything else about the photo -- and we haven't been in touch for a while, but I suppoe I could ask her if she knows anything more
     
  6. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    thanks, it's a lovely picture

    I just don't know --
     
  7. Figgs

    Figgs Well-Known Member

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    I did notice one odd detail that you could muse on......a lot of them are wearing some sort of fresh flower below the neckline and even some of the men have flowers in their lapels....does that signify an anniversary celebration perhaps??
     
  8. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    OK then, if the central couple are Selim and Anna and its their wedding anniversary (or maybe 50th/60th birthdays?) then the other people on their row are their 3 sons and 4 daughters ...

    The two prosperous confident looking men might be Selim's brothers Ozias and Ephraim ...?

    trying to work out who the 2 young children could be ... in hopes that will help date the photo

    1st daughter Lucretia (b 1872) had one son in 1911
    2nd daughter Anna (1874) had daur 1904, son 1908, son 1909, daur 1912
    3rd daughter Blanche (1877) had son 1898, son 1899, daughters 1902, 1907, 1909, 1911, son 1916
    1st son Harry (1879) had daur 1904, son 1906
    2nd son James (1882) --no children
    4th daughter Rosa (1885) had sons 1912, 1915, 1929
    3rd son Herbert (1891) had daur 1923, son 1924

    I don't see any babies or young girls; the first female grandchild is born 1902, and the next in 1904 -- I suppose there are all sorts of reasons very young babies & toddlers might have been kept out of the photo.

    If we imagine its c1905, that would make the two young boys sons of Blanche aged 6 and 7 --does that seem reasonable?

    How old do you think the stylish young lady with the swept fringe is? and the dapper young man with the stripey tie? it looks as though nieces and nephews are in the main absent, except perhaps for these two.
     
  9. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    It certainly looks 1900-1910ish. A good clue is the hairstyle of the young lass in the short-sleeve white blouse 6th from the right in the back row. She looks as though she would have the latest hairstyle for that year and so if you could date that somehow....

    Edit: I was writing while you were posting Christel! I'll have another peek.
     
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  10. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    She looks awfully like Theda Bara, especially with that heavy eye make-up. This photo is from about 1910 I believe although the web page says it's 1916>
    https://
    commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Theda_Bara_photo.jpg


    Edit: apparently the photo is c1916
     
  11. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    OK here's Flook's theory. The photo was taken in September 1917 celebrating Anna Dade's 65th birthday and her 45th wedding anniversary.. Looking at the sepia photograph of Selim & Anna on the Ancestry 'Cope Ruth Family Tree', I'd put money on it that that was taken within days of your photo. That would also explain why the young lass is imitating Theda Bara as she looked in a 1916 American publicity photo. The men are wearing dahlias.

    What an outrageous theory! :) (but you never know.....).
     
  12. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    The man and woman sitting down on the far right hand side could be the parents of Jessie Alice Saunders (born 1910) - or possibly(?) Ernest Harper. See the photo on the Ancestry 'Harper FT'. BTW that photo must surely have been taken near Dartford rather than Lowestoft.
     
  13. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Flook

    It is outrageous that you compare a simple Norfolk country girl to that notorious vamp! this is quite likely a cousin of mine, and I must say, well ... actually I am flattered!

    I am thinking along similar lines but was 5 years prior to you in 1912 -- I think it is more usual to celebrate a Ruby (40th) Anniversary ; it would also be Selim and Anna's 60th birthdays that same year.
     
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  14. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Yes that's the obvious date but I just developed this fixation with Theda!! (did you see she was apparently the third most famous film star of her day after Charlie Chaplin & Mary Pickford).
     
  15. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    well i could tell you were determined to involve Theda in my family story (and I completely understand). But i do legitimately have a minor silent movie star in my tree ...
     
  16. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Come on - do tell....
     
  17. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    well ... Iset Rosemary Milburn Pollard (niece of Frank Milburn Howlett (from one of my other posts), and my 5th cousin 2x removed) went to Singapore

    there she met and married a man called Vivian Cullinan Bath (who happens to be the brother of Clarissa Dickson Wright's mother! good grief)

    Vivian's first wife was ex-Ziegfield Follies girl Mary Hay, she had starred in a couple of films (she's the minor silent movie star)

    But i should say that Mary's 1st husband was a pretty big star called Richard Barthelmess

    this is a picture of Richard and Mary

    http://
    commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mary_Hay_02.JPG
     
  18. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Wow. I'm impressed. You don't need Family Tree Maker for that side of the family - just refer everyone to Wikipedia! :)
     
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  19. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    Actually the Howlett branch are pretty good fun to research, they get involved with (how shall I say) a higher social class, than most of the sailors, soldiers, Ag Labs, gardeners, and general labourers that I'm used to. Not that I think these people are better than my miners and market gardeners, it's just a different kind of paper trail, which is nice.

    also the Howletts are an early offshoot of the Dades, so I haven't gone too far off topic, with this digression
     
  20. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    I'm not going to labour this, but 100 years ago I wonder if a Ruby anniversary was really more significant than a Sapphire anniversary. I haven't got any stats to back this up but I would imagine that 40th, 45th and 50th wedding anniversaries were far less common than now and therefore each would be a significant milestone to be celebrated.
     

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