Help me to understand Church Records on F.M.P.

Discussion in 'Church Records' started by The Artful Dodger, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Isabel Hance is my 4X great-grand Aunt. I have it on good authority that she was baptised in Rayne, Essex on 5 April 1772. I have been unable to confirm this on F.M.P so I suspect the source of the baptism is from Essex Ancestors or SEAX.

    From F.M.P I was able to access Boyd's Marriage Index and confirm her marriage to Thomas Arnold in Rayne [1796] and then I was able to find the burial of Thomas Arnold also in Rayne [1816].

    I cannot seem to find what became of Isabel. I admit I'm on a learning curve with F.M.P so would appreciate some guidance from anyone who has used F.M.P.
     
  2. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Well I cannot find her using either FMP or Ancestry! As there does not seem to be a likely burial for her at Rayne and I cannot find her on any census records, it could well be that she remarried after Thomas's death. I can find a John HANCE, born c1770, in Rayne in the 1841 census, he being described as a Shoemaker & Parish Clerk - any relation to Isabel? Not that this snippet of information helps you at all in your quest for Isabel.

    Janet
     
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  3. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    I use FMP quite a lot, but I am not sure that I can give you an awful lot of guidance as their search engine does not seem consistent from one day to the next and some of their transcriptions are dire! I tend to tick the name variant boxes when it is a somewhat unusual name but not for the first attempt at a relatively common surname. If not successful at the first attempt when searching for someone in a particular parish, I then tend to do a blanket search on the county which often then leads to that particular parish popping up when it did not appear the first time, normally due to the parish search parameters FMP use. If a particular name that I expect to appear in a particular parish does not, I also browse through the actual parish register images, if available to do so, and lo and behold that name is often there. Unfortunately, the search facility is only as good as the transcription allows it to be and in many cases the transcriptions I have found, bear little resemblance to the actual entry in the parish register. This also applies to Ancestry transcriptions, not just to FMP though. Having said all this, I still think my subscriptions are worth the money and, to put forward a balanced view, in many cases the actual parish registers themselves are a nightmare to transcribe, so browsing through a particular parish is often the only way to proceed.

    Anyway, enjoy looking Colin and practice makes perfect!

    Janet
     
  4. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Isabel's brother was John Hance. The one thing I had not found for John was the 1841 census on Ancestry.

    When I checked FMP it brought up 1851 census - H0107, Piece 1785, Folio 614, page 16 - with unmarried son Samuel.

    I seem to recall that 1841 census for Rayne was destroyed but not sure of this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  5. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    There do not appear to be any Baptisms for a Hance child in Essex for the period 1727 +/- 5 years.

    How do I find baptisms?
     
  6. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    Did you mean 1727 or 1772 +/- 5 years ?
    Looking at the Rayne parish register on SEAX there are the following Hance births to Henry & Abigail. All at All Saints Church.
    Mary b.Mar 2nd 1768 bap. ?? 13th 1768
    Isabel b.Mar 8th 1772 bap Apr 5th 1772
    Anne b. Jan 27th 1774 bap Feb 27th 1774
    Henry b.Aug 31st 1776 bap.Oct 6th 1776
    Edward b. Aug 15th 1781 bap Sep 16th 1781
    Sarah b.Jun 25th 1783 bap. Jul 27th 1783
    Priscilla & Elizabeth (Twins) b.Sep 20th 1787 bap Sep 21st 1787

    No sign of a John? (Not an American toilet joke!)
     
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  7. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    Apart from the parish register I've just found that there is also a Clerks Register which was kept by 3 generations of the Hance family.
    John Hance from 1692 to 1772, Henry 1727 to 1813 and John Hance 1770 to 1861. I assume the dates mentioned for each one are for their birth and death.
    They were all parish clerk's at the church.
     
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  8. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    In my notes I have John baptised 15 November 1769

    I did have these. What I am trying to do is work some way back from Henry.

    In my notes I have his baptism 18 May 1727 but I don't have his parents.

    I was hoping that maybe finding some kids either side of Henry to try to find parents. Couildn't think of another way to trace as I have no experience of using SEAX.
     
  9. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    " 1727 Henry the son of John & Mary Hance was born May the 18th & baptisd May the 21"
    Entry in the All Saints,Rayne register
     
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  10. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    There is also a marriage 27 Dec 1721 of a John Hance to Mary the widow Fuller at the same church.
     
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  11. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    Further children of John & Mary were John bap.Aug 5th 1722, Thomas bap.Dec 28th 1723, Philip bap.Feb 26th 1724, Mary bap.Feb? 1729
    Register difficult to read for 1730 but there doesn't seem to be any more births after then for them.
    A John Hance is buried Sep 28th 1772, who I believe is the Father of these children.
     
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  12. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    With the help received here and also from elsewhere, the "leaves they are a-shakin' on my Hance tree". As 'old Deano' would say "Keep those cards and letters coming -- off to my couch now".

    Cheers all
     
  13. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Seriously confused now!!!

    I have just seen the following on FMP about a marriage between John Hance and Elizabeth Bedwell that took place in 1687. The source is - England, Boyd's marriage indexes, 1538-1850 Transcriptions.

    These are the 2 entries that confuse me:
    Place: Vicar General Marriage Licences
    Source: Boyd's 1st Miscellaneous marriage index, 1415-1808.

    According to various F-H trees I've viewed there is a possibility that John and Isabel could well be my 7X Great-grandparents.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2015
  14. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I have found 3 possible marriages for a Mary --- to a --- Fulller in Essex between 1710 and 1714:
    15 October 1710 - Mary Hutchin and William Fuller - West Hanningfield
    1712 - Mary Boreham and John Fuller - Great Maplestead
    1714 - Mary Tilly and Will. Fuller - Aldham

    As for burials within 2 years prior to Mary marrying John Hance on 21 December 1721, I have the following
    William Fuller - White Roding - 14 January 1720

    and 4 John Fuller's
    Springfield - 4 January 1719
    Lexden - 16 December 1719
    Finchingfield - 11 April 1720
    Colchester - 2 May 1720.

    Colchester to Rayne is about 20-25 miles
    Lexden to Rayne is about 20 miles
    Finchingfield is under 10 miles.
    Springfield appears to be a parish in Chelmsford district
    White Roding appears to be a parish in the Dunmow district.

    Any suggestions as tom how I can narrow it down a bit?
     
  15. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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    There is also the possibility that another record on FMP refers to the same 1687 marriage, except that this spells it as Isabella Bedwell and John Hanes, which took place 4 Dec 1687 at St Martin in the Fields,Westminster,London. Hanes sounds like Hance
     
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  16. patten-walsh

    patten-walsh Well-Known Member

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  17. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I will now look at this record. Thank you
     
  18. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Have attempted to make contact - will see what happens.

    The earliest they have is a marriage on 2 Feb. 1624 in Kelvedon, Essex between William Hance and Elizabeth Cockerton. Elizabeth died in Kelvedon in 1654 and William in Kelvedon in 1657.
     
  19. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    And possibly William was born in Kelvedon c. 1600.
     
  20. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    With regards to posts #18 and 19, something - not quite sure what, though - isn't adding up. Maybe it is just ME!!
     

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