Holywell

Discussion in 'Flintshire' started by Daft Bat, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Is there anyone on the forum who has a working knowledge of the streets in Holywell at the end of the 19th/beginning of the 20th century, please?

    I have searched for a couple of places on Google maps and Bing maps but to no avail. I know that many towns did change the names of some of their streets over the years. :(

    The streets that I am looking for are School Place (1901) and Pen-y-Ball Street (1901 & 1911). If found, I was wondering how far apart they were.

    Thanks. :)
     
  2. Andrew Davies

    Andrew Davies Well-Known Member

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    Which Holywell?
     
  3. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    The one in Flintshire, near Bagillt.
     
  4. Andrew Davies

    Andrew Davies Well-Known Member

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    Have had a look at the 1870 OS 1:2500 map and I can find Pen-Y-Ball ok but no sign of School Place. There are two schools on the map "British School" and "St Wenefreds" they both have terraced streets close by with no street name shown.
     
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  5. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Thanks, Andrew. I think that St Wenefreds was a Catholic convent and boarding school, so School Place is probably one of the roads near the British School, which I expect was a National School.

    Is Pen-y-Ball fairly close?
     
  6. Andrew Davies

    Andrew Davies Well-Known Member

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    St Wenefreds school is shown opposite the church and convent of st Wenefreds. I will send you a screen shot of the map when I get back home of the relative poison of the British school and Pen-y-ball.
     
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  7. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Thank you. :)
     
  8. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    I'm from Holywell, if that helps. :D:p What would you like to know?
     
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  9. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    I am looking at a married couple who are living apart in 1901. The wife is living in Pen-y-Ball Street (not Hill as is the name of the only one likely that I can see on Google Maps) and the husband in School Place - which I cannot find at all.

    I have a feeling that the (un)happy couple had split up for some reason and was just wondering how far apart they were.
     
  10. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Ooh! I have just seen a Pen-y-Bal (one l, not 2) Street across the road. That could be it. :)
     
  11. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Just followed that road round and it turns into Whitford Street, where the family were living in 1891. Could Pen-y-Bal Street have been part of Whitford Street at one time?
     
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  12. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    I was in Pen-y-Ball Street last evening, in fact. :D Very good fish and chips there. It runs into Whitford Street, both fairly narrow little streets and awkward to navigate.

    The town has undergone a lot of new road layouts at both ends of the high street, which is now pedestrianised. From Whitford Street it used to be a tight turn for the old Bristol buses to go down the well hill - Ysgol Gwenfrwdd, or St. Winefride's school, was near the top on the left. A classmate and I were sent over to Ysgol Gwenfrwdd carrying a letter from our school one afternoon and we nabbed chips on the way back.

    (Bit gobsmacked, as no one has ever shown interest in my home town before...:D)
     
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  13. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    I think I've got it. This is the map (go right over to Holywell on the right hand side). High Street is quite easy to find. This runs into Cross Street. Turn left and this runs into Pen Y Ball Street. School Place is pretty certainly somewhere at the back of Chapel Street (just north of Cross Street). I'll send my reason in a couple of minutes.

    http://maps.nls.uk/view/135195298
     
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  14. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Thank you "Map Man" :D
     
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  15. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    To add, I went to the 'British' school - and no hint of a School Place around there.
     
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  16. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    On the 1911 Census there is an Isaac Williams born 1857 in New Market, Flintshire - note he's not the one born in Ysceifiog. I'm using The Genealogist and they show the document that goes with the census page and it clearly states his address is 3 School Place. I'm not sure what Marden Crescent refers to on the census form but it clearly says that No.3 is at the back of Chapel Street. In 1891 Isaac is living at 2, School Place.

    Genuki says that Seion Welsh Independent Chapel was in Chapel Street and in the 1901 census* Mount Zion addresses follow immediately after the School Place addresses. So although School Place and Mount Zion aren't mentioned on the map, I think School Place is at the back of Chapel Street somewhere (and the unnamed chapel on the map is 'Mount Zion').

    I'm not putting next month's rent on this but it might have legs...

    *RG13/5209/27/18
     
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  17. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Makes sense to me! Thank you. :)
     
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  18. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Looks like I was right! :eek:

    Flintshire Observer January 3rd 1895:

    Gallagher 1895.JPG

    There's a further assault in 1903... she hit him with a poker... :nailbiting:
     
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  19. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Sounds about right. :oops: Feisty bunch in 'Ollywull.

    Again, he's living on New Road in 1895, what is locally known as the Well Hill - close proximity to where Flook pinpointed School Place and which is off Whitford Street. Shame that so many of the really old buildings have gone from around there.
     
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  20. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    To bring some closure, the school was known as Spring Gardens, and was an infant school - 'little ones'.

    I consulted the local history archives - ie. my mother. :)

    Not only that, the school survives - but not up by School Place. The building was saved and moved to a new site at the local heritage park.
     
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