How can I find more info on the Whittington family.

Discussion in 'Montgomeryshire' started by Chimp, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Harking back to another thread of mine HERE

    I would like to find out more about this family;

    There was a death notice in the Cambrian News and Merionethshire Standard, dated 26 February 1870

    On 18th, February aged 85, at Knighton, Mrs ANN HOSSON, widow of Mr Samuel Hodson, late of Knighton, Radnorshire, and daughter of John Whittington, Esq., formerly of Aberhafesp Hall, in the county of Montgomery.

    It is the Whittington side I am interested in. Namely the parents of Ann and Aberhafesp Hall.

    Ann and Samuel had a daughter Ursula. Ursula Hodson was born on the 20th July 1819. Samuel was a yeoman by trade. Ursula was christened on 27th August 1819 in St Mary, Parish Church, Swansea, Glamorganshire.

    I wondered why they chose the name Ursula. After doing some digging on familysearch I found this marriage;

    John Whittington married Ursula Hamer in Aberhafesp, Montgomeryshire on 20 June 1777.

    Ann's age at date of death in 1870 was 85. This would give a birth of around 1785, so in the right time frame.

    Did John Whittington actually live at the hall, ie. lord of the manor or was he just a worker there. Back in those days I think Esq meant more than it does today.

    Any help or suggestions appreciated .
     
  2. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Ok, another question. Why would there be 2 entries for the marriage of John Whittington to Ursula Hamer, same Digital Folder Numbers but in different counties?

    Groom: John Whittington
    Bride: Ursula Hamar
    Marriage: 20 Jun 1777, Aberhafesp, Montgomeryshire, Wales
    Digital Folder Number 004419601

    Groom: John Whittington
    Bride: Ursula Hamar
    Marriage: 20 Jun 1777, Nannerch, Flintshire, Wales
    Digital Folder Number 004419601
     
  3. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Try Mr Google - I entered - John Whittington aberhafesp hall - there looks to be info about John and his family
     
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  4. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Will do it now. Thank you very much MollyMay {-(^^)-}
     
  5. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Just had a look at the originals of these and they are identical. Married by licence, not by Banns. The marriage took place in Montgomeryshire and has been filed in both Montgomeryshire and Powys, which is the modern 'county' that covers Montgomeryshire, Radnorshire and Breconshire.
     
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  6. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Thank you MollyMay. I have found a contact email so will send an email.
     
  7. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Thank you Jan. I don't understand why one is in Flintshire and the other is in Montgomeryshire. The distance from one to the other is just over 60 miles.
     
  8. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Actually I have found 2 more marriages of the Whittington's family and they are recorded in both places.
     
  9. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Maybe it's a mis-filing. I found two entries but one was Montgomeryshire and the other was Powys - just to confuse matters further!
     
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  10. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Email sent, now the waiting game starts :rolleyes:
     
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  11. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Had a reply to my email

    Evening,

    In my tree I have an John Whittington, born in 1754, to Richard Whittington & Anne Swancott.

    Richard Whittington is described as a yeoman/gentleman and was a tenant at Aberhafesp Hall and several other farms. John (b. 1754) is named in his mother's 1800 will as of Aberhafesp.

    In Llanwnog, contiguous to Aberhafesp, there is the bpt:

    Anne, d. of John Whittington & Ursula, born 20 Feb 1785, bpt. 4 Mar

    John's father was still alive at this point, so John was probably at a smaller farm, before moving to Aberhafesp Hall.

    These names have really rung some bells re. an old document I was going to buy. It was sold on eBay, and I asked to winner if I could buy it, which they agreed to after they inspected it. But they never got back to me, and I lost interest as although it mentioned several relatives, none were siblings of ancestors.

    Anyway, the document was about a Samuel Hodson, from the Isle of Man and Montgomeryshire. I believe it was mid-1850s.


    Could it be the same Samuel Hodson who married Ann Whittington?
    The year of birth would be correct for Ann who died 1870 aged 85.
     
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  12. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Looks good to me Terry.

    I have found the will of Richard Whittington in which he names his son John as Executor and also names his wife as Ann. It is long and the usual PCC ramblings, but it does mention a fair amount of names. I have to go out soon, so can't really have a good look until a lot later, but at a quick glance there are several other names mentioned, and it looks as if John had several sisters. I can't find a will for Ann Whittington in 1800 as mentioned in the e-mail.

    Ann
     
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  13. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    It wasn't proved at the PCC but at a Welsh court. It can be seen on the National Library of Wales website (click on 'Wills' in left-hand menu):

    http://
    cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon

    P.S. there's a button at the top right to switch between Welsh & English language versions of the site.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
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  14. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    i have a copy of Richards will but can hardly read it. why can:'t they print instead of using joined up writing :'(
     
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  15. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I've had a look at Richard's will and have picked out the main bits - not the way to do it, but, for now, I thought you would probably only want the bare bones and as it doesn't appear to get you any further forward, other than to name John as his son......

    Anyway Richard splits up his estate roughly thus -
    Richard Whittington of Aberhafesp in the County of Montgomery, Gentleman.
    To my “dear wife Ann Whittington £200 to be paid within six months of my decease, the bed bed-cloaths all the furniture in the room where I now sit the mare which she normally rides with the bridle and saddle”.
    To my son in law Jeremiah Thomas £5
    To my son in law David Rees the £10 legacy left to his wife Martha from her grandfather John Swancott deceased.
    To my daughter Elizabeth Stephens widow £100 and the rest of the household goods linen and furniture to be taken in lieu of a promissory note for £30.
    To friends Maurice Stephens of Llanidloss Gentleman and John Savage of Trefeglwys Gentleman £50 in trust for two granddaughters Anne and Elizabeth Stephens.
    Anything else to son John Whittington who is made executor.
    Dated 3rd February 1785
    Codicil dated 9th July 1787
    Wife Ann must leave the £200 in one form or another to be distributed amongst her grandchildren of her three daughters by their first marriage and not by any other.
    An extra £50 goes to daughter Elizabeth Stephens now Elizabeth Turner wife of John Turner.
    Proved 18th August 1788


    So, John appeared to have three sisters, one who married Jeremiah Thomas, Martha who married David Rees and Elizabeth who married a Mr Stephens and who then married John Turner. By the by Stephens is spelt both with a ph and a v. Elizabeth had two daughters, Anne and Elizabeth, but there is no mention of any other grandchildren's names, although others seem to be hinted at.

    Ann
     
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  16. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Thank you very much for deciphering the will for me Ann, that was very kind.

    The other Sister was Ann. She must have been the one that married Jeremiah Thomas.

    That was a pure guess on my part, but have found what must have been a prelude to the marriage on familysearch;

    Groom: Jeremiah Thomas
    Bride: Ann Whittington
    Marriage Banns: 6 January 1770 Llanwnnog, Montgomeryshire, Wales
    Digital Folder Number 004434213
     
  17. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Thank you very much Huncamunca. Thank you for your instructions, I found it straight away.
     
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  18. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    The name of Jeremiah's wife is confirmed in the will of Richard Whittington's widow Ann, which you can read on the National Library of Wales website. Their catalogue also has details of this 1770 marriage licence bond:

    Thomas, Jeremiah, Llanllugan, Montgomeryshire, singleman, yeoman [and] Whittington, Anne, Llanwnnog, Montgomeryshire, sp.; marriage at Llanwnnog.

    You can see the corresponding marriage entry in the marriage register on Findmypast, which confirms they married by licence.

    The NLW catalogue brings up various other marriage licence bonds, for example:

    1777: Whittington, John, Aberhafesb, Montgomeryshire, bach. [and] Hamar, Ursula, Penstrowed, Mongtomeryshire, sp.; marriage at Aberhafesb

    1812: Hodson, Samuel, Knighton, Radnorshire, wid. [and] Whitington, Anne, Llandinam, Montgomeryshire, sp.; marriage at Llandinam

    Also this 1830 mortgage:

    '1.Samuel Hodson of Liverpool, co. Lancaster, gent., and Anne, his wife. 2.Jane Hamer, Susan Hamer, Charlotte Hamer and Ursula Hamer of Newtown, co. Montgomery, spinsters. Mortgage by demise of the moiety of a messuage and lands called Hen Cefn, parish of Trefeglwys, co. Montgomery, and a messuage called Bylate built upon part of the said land.'
     
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  19. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    According to the actual register entry, the marriage took place on 6th January 1770 by licence. It was witnessed by Thomas Jones and Nicholas Jones. ;)
     
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  20. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Brilliant Thank you both very much indeed.

    Brilliant, that was the marriage I was after.
    And with this last bit it confirms the correct marriage and family.

    Now if I could find the marriage of Samuel to his first wife Charlotte that would make a full house.

    Thank you all again for your help. I love Top Dog {-(^^)-}
     
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