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I wonder how she survived immediately after ---

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by The Artful Dodger, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Ann Ciphery came to Canada with her parents c.1852 and can be found in the 1861 census in Cavan ON.
    She married John Grose [who's occupation is given as a Farmer] 27 Nov. 1872 in Durham Co. ON. In the 1871 census, John is a 21 year old Farm Labourer, living with a young family named Adams.
    1881 census John now had 4 children [aged between 10 months and 7 years] along with Ann;s widowed mother. Nearby is John's widowed father. John's occupation is a Farmer.
    1891 census John now had 9 children at home [aged between 1 year and 17] along with Ann's widowed mother. John's occupation is now a Labourer. They now live in the town of Peterborough.
    John died of Pneumonia 17 May 1891 in Peterborough and is buried at Little Lake Cemetery, Peterborough. From his death certificate it would appear his occupation is listed as Teamster.

    So we have Ann a 41 year old widow with 9 children, her 85 year old widowed mother and no apparent occupation. I don't know her address in '91 but in 1893 she shows up in the Peterborough Register with her son John [aged 17 years]and daughter Susan [aged 19 years] both children employed, living at 348 Charlotte St., Peterborough.
    Future censuses [1901] still has 8 children at home [youngest aged 11] and most of these children have gainful employment. No occupation listed for Ann and by 1911 only 3 children [aged 20 to 26] were living with her at 148 Rubidge St. and the same 3 children were still there in 1921. It would appear that 148 Rubidge may have been a Rooming House.
    Ann was still a resident of 148 Rubidge when she died at the Nicholls Hospital, Peterborough on 22 March 1935. She was aged 84. Her daughter Mary was the informant and Mary was unmarried and lived with her mother on Rubidge.
    Ann is buried at Little Lake Cemetery.

    I have not be able to find out anything more about Ann's life after the death of John, but on the surface it would appear that she was supported in later life by her children. I wonder if there exists a Will that could fill in some blanks - but so far not found.
     
  2. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Hi, Colin.
    Do you know anything about Ann's father? I had one young widow whose father left her a good chunk of money for support. I had another who rented large apartments and sublet the extra rooms. Justa thot. ;)
     
  3. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Hi Barb. Good thoughts!!

    At the time of the 1851 census in England, Ann's family consisted of Father - George age 36, Mother - Susanna age 45, Sister - Mary age 19 and Brother - George age 2. They lived at North Lew, Devon. I have found a birth registration for George - her brother - in Okehampton, Devon J-S 1848, vol.10 page 170. I have not found a birth registration Ann.
    The 1851 census has the surname as CHIPHERY [H0107/1885/93/11] and the 1841 census as SIFFARY [H0107/258/3/8/9].There is no wife listed in 1841 and young Mary is shown as a 7 year old. There is a lady Susanna but her age is indicated as 70. George is an Ag. Lab. In 1851 George is a Farmer of 18 acres.

    A George Ciphery married Susanna Phare in Okehampton in 1847 [don't have marriage cert, so can't state particulars of either.

    George died from injuries received accidentally from a threshing machine on 10 August 1872. He was a Farmer and was aged 60. His widow died 8 Dec. 1897 - her age was given as 93.

    I don't believe there was a lot of money in the family.
     
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  4. Sandiep

    Sandiep Successfully Supports Searches!

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    do you think George got compensation or insurance from his accident with the threshing machine?
    there is a photo of family on Ancestry and family look well dressed!
     
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  5. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    The parish register image is on FMP

    Marriage date: 30 Dec 1847, Highampton, Devon (after Banns)
    Denomination: Anglican

    George Ciphery, Bachelor, of Full Age, Labourer, of Highampton, (his mark)
    Father's name: John Browning, Blacksmith
    Susannah Phare, Spinster, of Full Age, of Highampton (signed)
    Fathers Name: Thomas Phare, Inn Keeper (?)

    George Jnr was baptised at Highampton 6th August 1848
     
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  6. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    This is interesting, Chimp.

    Was George leading a double life and telling a few porkies along the way?

    1] It would appear that George was illegitimate - see name of father.

    Things I've discovered about George since posting yesterday:
    1] A possible marriage:
    In the parish of Northlew, Devon on 28 Dec. 1832 after Banns a George Cifery[sic] married Sarah Braund. Both made their mark.

    2] Several trees on Ancestry indicate Sarah BRAUND was born in Nothlew, Devon in 1819 married George - see above - aged 13 and died in Nothlew 15 Feb. 1837 aged 18. This was shortly after the birth of William - see below.

    3] I made reference to a Mary age 7 in post 1 as being part of the 1841 census. Several trees on Ancestry indicate Mary was born in Northlew, Devon 20 Oct. 1833 and that she had a brother William born in Northlew 29 Jan. 1837. These trees indicate that Mary was in Canada by 1854 as on the 1861 census of Canada there is a Mary Hadley age 27 living in Goderich with husband William and 3 children aged 2-6years. These trees indicate she died in Laird Township, Algoma District, ON. 25 Nov. 1915.

    4] As for locations in Devon:
    Northlew to Highhampton is under 4 miles.

    Things [amongst others] not found:When
    1] No information about the "details" contained on these trees - where did this come from?.

    2] When did the family come to Canada? Could have been any time after the 1851 census.
     
  7. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Image on FMP

    George Sifery
    Sarah Braund
    Marriage date 28 Dec 1832, Northlew, Devon
    After Banns
    Denomination Anglican
    Burial image on FMP

    Sarah Sifory
    Age 26
    Birth year 1811
    Burial date 15 Feb 1837, Northlew, Devon
    Denomination Anglican

    Cant find a birth for 1811. There is a baptism for a Sarah BRAUND in Northlew on 24th June 1806, father Richard, Mother Agnes.

    Images on FMP

    Devon Baptisms
    Mary Jeffery (Mistranscribed, original says Siffory)
    Baptism 10th November 1833, Northlew, Devon
    Denomination Anglican
    Father George, Labourer
    Mother Sarah

    Devon Baptisms
    William Jiffery (Mistranscribed, original says Sif(e or o)ry)
    Baptism 29th January 1837, Northlew, Devon
    Denomination Anglican
    Father George, Labourer
    Mother Sarah
     
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  8. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Thanks, Chimp. With all these FMP records maybe I should get my own sub.

    Others didn't seems to bother just used A trees as sources.
     
  9. Sandiep

    Sandiep Successfully Supports Searches!

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    I often use FMP to prove or disprove Ancestry trees its search engine is better
    but they do have different records I know I am lucky to have both and I still cant find answers as quick as some !
     
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  10. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    Input via copy and paste all the surname and variants (was it ever spelled twice the same way?) in the search all option at LAC - no results found. :oops::headbang:

    Been awhile since I searched in Ontario. I was hoping to find land records or some other indication of when they arrived there. (pout).
     
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  11. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Compensation or Insurance - Not sure about that as it was in 1872 and on the surface it would appear that George may just have been a farm lab. Worker's Comp. I don't believe existed and Susanna was aged 54. Looking at her parents - Thomas and Alice - her father died 16 Oct. 1825 and her mother 26 Jun. 1851. Seems likely she - Susanna - may have felt things could be better in Canada

    As for the family photo on Ancestry the only one I've found is the one of George and Susanna's daughter Ann - who married John Grose. This one with all 8 of her children and all are well dressed. Looking at this photo. I would say it was taken after the death of John Grose who died 17 May 1891 from some type of Pneumonia - age 42 - leaving Ann 8 children [aged 1-17]. If this is Ann's family then I would hazard a guess of the date a bout 1904. Susanna was with Ann in and family in 1891. John Grose was a Labourer so unlikely to have lots of money given the size of his family.
    Susanna Phare/Cipery died of old age [aged 93] in Peterborough on 8 December 1897
     
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  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    A most unusual surname.
    So a look in Canada found a George Ciphery on the 1911 census age 63 (1848-George age 2 1851?)born England with wife Catherine born Ontario and children, Harvey 18, Belle 17, Stanley 14. Essex South Sub dist 1-52 Ontario
    Another George Ciphery born England 1841 immigration 1844, connected? Maybe not. All on FS..of course.
     
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  13. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Sent a message.
     
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  14. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Thanks Sue, and very helpful in bringing the family forward. There was another poster on that site, however not as much detail and neither had been updated since mid-late 2000's. Maybe neither poster is active.

    Now to review post #12
     
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  15. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Thank you for finding the 1911 census. The reason I couldn't find was that Anc. has the given name of George sr. transcribed as AREA. That is the correct family.
     
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  16. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I wonder if immigration 1844 should be 1854. The 1841 birth year may transcribed wrongly too.
     
  17. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    These gave me goose-bumps.

    I think the baptism in Northlew on 24 June 1806 is probably the right Sarah and either George didn't know [or was embarrassed about she being a few years older than he] and so just gave an age. George's death and burial has provided with a possible birth date of 12 May 1812. A tree on Ancestry has indicated that George was the illegitimate son of Susanna. Susanna died April-June q. 1851in Northlew. This same tree indicates her death was 14 May 1851.

    It is likely that the cause of death may have been complications arising from the birth of William. There is the baptism on 29 January for him, but he is not with his father, sister or who looks to be the mother of George Ciphery - Susanna. Can he be found?

    On the surface it would appear that life in England was unbearable for George by 1851-52, with the death of his 1st wife Sarah, supporting his mom Susanna and possibly burying William and with the death of his mom in 1851 he took his family to Canada somewhat after the 1851 census.
     
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  18. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    This is our George with his family in the 1901 census. I think you are correct as to the year of immigration 1854.
     
  19. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Taking into account that we have a baptism for Susanna Phare in Highhampton, Devon 11 May 1806 would make her aged 41 when she married George in 1847. I note on the image of her baptism her given name is Susna.

    I have her in 1851 census.

    Could this be her in 1841 H0107/257/9/1 in Highhampton, Devon - 35 years old and also in household is a 15 year John Phare? Her name is given as Susan.
    If it is her can a baptism for any possible children of her be found? So far I've not found any.
     
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