Inquests

Discussion in 'Norfolk' started by LianeH, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. LianeH

    LianeH Well-Known Member

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    Trying to find out where to find the inquest report (if any) on a death at Eye, Norfolk in 1850. Details are:

    Zachariah Hawes (b.1808) died at Eye on 3rd January 1850. Death by wagon passing over body.

    Someone in the family said they thought they had found the inquest reports at Ipswich but that's in Suffolk. I've tried searching both Suffolk and Norfolk but maybe I need fresh eyes.

    Inquests are a new one for me so any help gratefully received.

    Thanks guys
     
  2. Genie1

    Genie1 Well-Known Member

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  3. LianeH

    LianeH Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Genie, I did see that link but going onto it, it says there are no records at TNA. Maybe the local offices have some. Guess a trip to Norwich and Ipswich are in order.
     
  4. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Eye is in Suffolk - but almost on the border with Norfolk. ;)

    I would certainly contact the Suffolk Records Office - ask them what their holdings are before taking a trip - and I have always found the Ipswich office very good from when I was searching my Suffolk ancestors. :)
     
  5. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    Eye is in Suffolk, so if he definitely died there, that's where you'd need to look. The guide to Coroners' Records by Jeremy Gibson and Colin Rogers mentions an index to inquests in some parts of Suffolk 1767-1858, but not apparently including Eye. It was published by the Suffolk FHS, but it's not in their current list of publications.

    I can't see anything relevant on the Suffolk Archives page, but (as Jan has just said while I've been typing) it might be worth enquiring rather than visiting in the first instance.

    Across the country there's only a very patchy survival of coroners' records, and often you do best with newspaper reports - sometimes the Victorians loved a gory tale, and didn't hold back with their descriptions of accidents etc.

    I'm pretty sure I once heard that the lack of records is in some cases because the coroners were mainly working as lawyers or doctors elsewhere, and only did inquests on an ad hoc basis. This meant they saw their records as personal papers rather than public documents, so there's a chance they might turn up among the records of old law firms etc. In this case, if, say, the coroner was a lawyer from Diss who did cross-border inquests as necessary, it might be possible for his records to have survived somewhere in Norfolk. The first step to checking this out would be to get the coroner's name from the death certificate, and then to see if any of his papers had been lodged somewhere.
     
  6. LianeH

    LianeH Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys. We aren't that far from Ipswich and a day trip could be just the answer plus we have friends there so dinner as well - win win:D Back to have another look for newspaper reports - its a good job the boss is out today;)
     
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  7. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    As @arthurk stated newspapers loved gory details. I have a gr. uncle killed when his team got spooked by a train whistle and that inquest took up a lot of the newspaper it was reported in. Nothing left to imagine. :eek: Maybe when you do go there to visit you can check their local library for their local newspaper archive.
     
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  8. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I think I've found the report in a paper. First I found this
    Bury and Norwich Post 29th May 1850
    On Sunday evening a boy named Hawes, about eleven years of age, was found drowned in a pond on the estate of the Misses Harrison, St John’s, Palgrave, by whom he has been for a considerable time employed to keep sheep. This unfortunate lad was the son of Zachariah Hawes, whose melancholy death (from a wagon passing over his body) was recorded in our paper very recently.

    which led me to this
    Bury and Norwich Post 9th January 1850
    A most melancholy accident occurred on Thursday afternoon at Eye. Two men in the employ of Mr. Read, of Wortham, were returning home in a state of intoxication, with a waggon load of iron hurdles, when they both fell in front of the wheels, which passed over their bodies, and they were killed on the spot.

    Will keep looking, but I don't think there's going to be much more as being run over by a wagon was a fairly common accident :(
     
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  9. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I tell a lie - I've found the inquest report -

    Norfolk Chronicle 12th January 1850
    A melancholy accident occurred in the town Eye, on Thursday, the 3rd inst., by which two labourers in the employ of Mr Wm. Read, farmer, of Wortham, Suffolk, came to an untimely end. It appeared, by the evidence given on the inquest, that Mr Read sent, his waggon and two horses, with two men, John Flatman and Zacharias Hawes, on Thursday morning, to Eye, for a load of iron hurdles, which he had previously ordered for his landlady. It would appear, that they were treated with drink by the tradesman, of whom the hurdles were ordered; and when they were loaded, they had some beer at the Bull inn, with two men who had assisted in loading; and, at that time, according to the evidence of Mr Barber, a respectable tradesmen, they were intoxicated, and could not walk straight. Seeing the other two men with them, he concluded that they went to take care of them, otherwise he should have had had them stopped. A young man of the name of Aldrich, saw the accident occur. The men made the horses gallop up the hill just going out town. The horses kept on full trot after they got up the hill. Hawes had hold of the draught chain, and Flatman hold of the shaft. They were running, and were very larkish. He saw Hawes fall down, and Flatman fall over him; both tried to scramble out the way, but the horses going a good sharp trot the time, the wheels passed over both of them in an instant. He called to a man to stop the horses; and with that man got both the sufferers, who were both then alive, into his cart. He drove them both back to the town; but when taken out the cart at the Bull, both were dead. The jury returned a verdict of “Accidental death, the men being intoxicated at the time.” We understand that Hawes has left a widow and nine children, and Flatman a widow and three children. They were honest, sober, industrious men, of the best class of labourers; and doubtless fell victims to the practice “treating” too general Christmas-time; for the money found in their pockets proved, that they had spent very little themselves.
     
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  10. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    "Like" doesn't seem appropriate, but that's a good find, Ann. If any inquest records could be found, I doubt they'd tell us more than this.
     
  11. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    It looks like Liane has lost that dinner out:D

    Great find Ann - I, too, just could not 'like' the posts:(, really sad. Poor woman losing both her husband and son to tragic accidents within a few months.
     
  12. CaroleF

    CaroleF Well-Known Member

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    Great research @AnnB and what a very sad story. One's heart goes out to that poor wife and mother.
     
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  13. Blackmogs

    Blackmogs Moderator. General Dogs(cats)body. Staff Member

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    How funny, I was about to say if anyone could find out anything it would be you @AnnB - and lo! You did :) I am not sure if you remember my George Simpson merry dance and you found the report of his death in a newspaper. I am in awe of your sleuthing. xxxxxxx
     
  14. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Ann is so good.

    What a desperately sad story. Nine children. :(
     
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  15. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Yes, I remember George :) I think I've just got a devious mind - the more convoluted the search, the more I'm determined to find something :rolleyes:
     
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  16. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    You didn't lie. You thought you were wrong, but you were mistaken. ;)
     
  17. LianeH

    LianeH Well-Known Member

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    Oh Ann, thank you. I had found the report o. His son but couldn't find the other reports. Such a sad story. Now going to see if the pub is still standing. I'm sure a day out is required and I can still have dinner:D
     
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  18. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Well, it is still there - but you'll need to like Chinese food :rolleyes:
    Code:
    http://www.closedpubs.co.uk/suffolk/eye_bull.html
     
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  19. LianeH

    LianeH Well-Known Member

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    I had a look as well, love Chinese so fine by me, now just need a free weekend;) thank you again Ann
     
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  20. Malcolm Webb

    Malcolm Webb Well-Known Member

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    It is a great pity that more coronor's inquest reports are not available on-line. I happen to have an interest in West Yorkshire (or my wife does) and the reports of the West Yorkshire Coronor, Thomas Taylor, are available on Ancestry in the following collection "West Yorkshire, England, Wakefield Charities Coroners Notebooks, 1852-1909". This has proved a wonderful source of information on several of Sheila's relatives.

    All the best.
     

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